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standard or high volume oil pump??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Foxfan88
  • Start date Start date May 25, 2006

Foxfan88

My Grandpa has great wood.
Sep 13, 2004
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Miami, Ok
May 25, 2006
#1
  • May 25, 2006
  • #1
went to Oreilys to price some motor part i am going to buy new, oil and water pump and etc.

and i had the choice b/w high volume and standard. he said the HV puts out 25% more

i've heard just to get a regular one???

anyone know for sure??

also where can i get a blocker ring for 4th gear??
 
8

86bluecobra

Advanced Member
Dec 20, 2004
4,265
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B.C. Canada
May 25, 2006
#2
  • May 25, 2006
  • #2
you can get a standard one. If you have a 7 quart oil pan then get the high volume. other wise if you had the high volume and only 5 quarts of oil if you drag race you could pump all your oil out of your oil pan.
 

jrichker

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#3
  • May 26, 2006
  • #3
http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/bulletin-3rd.htm

From the Melling site, for those who didn't follow the link & read the tech note...




High Volume Pumps: Advantages, Myths & Fables

Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.

The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.

A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.

The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.

Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.

That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.


It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.

It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine. If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.

It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.

It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming. This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.

It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.

High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.

Thanks to bubba-dough for helping to educate all of us...
 

STANGateURlilSS

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May 26, 2006
#4
  • May 26, 2006
  • #4
if you are running a stock oil pan.. get a standard.. if you have a pan thats baffled and has a higher capacity.. hence 7qt or bigger then go high volume.. but in reality a high volume pump can actually empty a stock 5.0l oil pan at higher rpm.. which is when you need the oil most
 

jrichker

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#5
  • May 26, 2006
  • #5
Apparently STANGateURlilSS didn't bother to read the Tech note from the Melling site that said pumping the pan dry was a myth.

I have run a high volume pump for over 7 years and never have seen any loss of pressure from running the engine at high RPM's. Pumping the pan dry isn't going to happen unless you let the oil level drop below the 3 1/2 quart point with a stock pan.
 

Grn92LX

Fidanza Man!
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Jan 14, 2001
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May 26, 2006
#6
  • May 26, 2006
  • #6
Use what your builder says to use!

I let my builder pick out the pump for my 347 shortblock.
 

352Ford2

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Oct 12, 2005
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May 26, 2006
#7
  • May 26, 2006
  • #7
The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.

true but the by pass valve regulates it, but keep in mind many "high volume or high pressure" pumps on the market are regular pumps with either stronger bypass spring or a shimmed bypass spring. Those have all the disavantages of the high volume oil pump and none of the advantages. Never buy one of those you are better off with the std one unless you are looking baidaid fix some things (look below)


It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.

true, but a great bandaid fix that might get you a few more miles out of an engine, if that is all you are looking to do.


It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.

I do believe most dis gear failures are not related to oil pressure (usaly wrong material, loose tolerances, etc) but it does cause increase load on the dis gear, while that may not be an issue on a sbc that has a gear twice the size of a sbf, I have seen way too many worn out dis gears that I would blame on increased loading.


All you are looking to do for rod, main, and cam bearings is coat the bearing in a thin film of oil, nothing more. You want to run just enough pressure to keep this film and stock pressure is more than adaquite for that. keep in mind if you are running extra pressure you are wasting HP, and possiblly hurting things.
 
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