Starter gone bad I think

CManT1914 · Dec 16, 2005

Been having issues with the mustang not wanting to start after it's warmed up and shut off. I thought it was insufficient grounds, so I upgraded, didn't help. The other day, it wouldn't start cold either, I would turn the key and nothing. But I have good power, so I know it's not just a weak battery. I thought it was the POS terminals, so I just swapped those out in the driveway, still nothing. At this point I think my starter must have kicked the bucket. It would make sense, with it getting heat soaked, that would explain the not wanting to start when it's hot (say I run into a gas station or something, come right back out, it won't start again, cranks REAL slow). So anybody else have any ideas? Another mechanic I work with says he thinks it's more likely the starter as well. Any thoughts? The worse part is, I will have to figure out someway to get it to either my dad's shop or the dealership where I work to work on it sometime.

HISSIN50 · Dec 17, 2005

WHen all else is ruled out Chris, the starter is what is left. The heatsoak issues seemed to affect LT guys and foxes real bad (SN95 starters are a lot better than fox starters) but what you described sounds a good bit like heat soak.

If you give the old starter a rap with a mallet, it might start again for ya. Can you compression start the car?

Good luck man! (I was gonna pick your ear about how you like your new alternator - I guess you have not tried it out as much as we might have hoped. ).

urban96 · Dec 17, 2005

does it not turn over at all? to test for a bad ground (even tho youve re-wired it) take some jumper cables and run the ground directly to one of the starter bolts

if it still does it definatly replace it.

Pokageek · Dec 17, 2005

You can have mine for $40.

make it $30. You have earned it man.

CManT1914 · Dec 17, 2005

Pokageek said:
You can have mine for $40.

make it $30. You have earned it man.

Your starter? It's still good? PM sent.

mo_dingo · Dec 18, 2005

When you can't get the car to start, try taking a jumper cable and short the pos and neg terminals on the starter. If it starts, you have an ignition signal problem (small wire at starter). If it's still acting up, r/r a new starter.
Scott

RIO5.0 · Dec 18, 2005

As mentioned I would run the jumpers directly from the starter to battery...then you can rule that one in or out...
Its a pain to pull the starter and throw a new one in to have it do the same thing...amnit:

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

mo_dingo said:
When you can't get the car to start, try taking a jumper cable and short the pos and neg terminals on the starter. If it starts, you have an ignition signal problem (small wire at starter). If it's still acting up, r/r a new starter.
Scott

Short the two terminals (on the starter) together?

RIO5.0 said:
As mentioned I would run the jumpers directly from the starter to battery...then you can rule that one in or out...
Its a pain to pull the starter and throw a new one in to have it do the same thing...amnit:

Sounds like two different methods, one I short the starter to itself, the other I connect the battery directly to the starter.

18mustangs · Dec 18, 2005

HISSIN50 said:
If you give the old starter a rap with a mallet, it might start again for ya. Can you compression start the car?

QUOTE]
:Word: Yep, that's exactly what happened with mine, I rapped it (lightly) with my tire iron in the parking lot while having a friend turn it over and it started right up. I replaced the started that night and no problems!
Tim

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

HISSIN50 said:
Can you compression start the car?

JT, what is compression starting the car?

Somebody tell me, I thought I read somewhere that the starter solenoid was part of the starter on ours? Is this true?

HISSIN50 · Dec 18, 2005

AFAIK, the solenoid piggybacks the starter (unlike foxes with the remote mounted fender solenoid). I would jump the small starter-interlock wire (S terminal) to the battery lug on the solenoid (when the small wire sees 12 volts, it energizes the solenoid).

Chris - Compression start = proper name for bump start (key on, rolling at a bit of speed and dump the clutch in 3rd gear and clutch it back up). I know you know that - just that I used a funny term for it.

Good luck bud.

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

HISSIN50 said:
AFAIK, the solenoid piggybacks the starter (unlike foxes with the remote mounted fender solenoid). I would jump the small starter-interlock wire (S terminal) to the battery lug on the solenoid (when the small wire sees 12 volts, it energizes the solenoid).

Okay, that's what I thought. Do you have any diagrams on this? If not, you think maybe Jrichkter(sp?) will? He's got all kinds of diagrams.

HISSIN50 said:
Chris - Compression start = proper name for bump start (key on, rolling at a bit of speed and dump the clutch in 3rd gear and clutch it back up). I know you know that - just that I used a funny term for it.

Good luck bud.

lol, I thought that's what you were referring to. I always called it push-start, or popping the clutch. But I always used 2nd. I even used first a couple times when I couldn't get hardly any speed up. Wonder if I could use reverse?

HISSIN50 · Dec 18, 2005

CManT1914 said:
Okay, that's what I thought. Do you have any diagrams on this? If not, you think maybe Jrichkter(sp?) will? He's got all kinds of diagrams.

lol, I thought that's what you were referring to. I always called it push-start, or popping the clutch. But I always used 2nd. I even used first a couple times when I couldn't get hardly any speed up. Wonder if I could use reverse?

Chris, courtesy of StangPlus2Birds is this picture.

The small terminal/wire should show 12 volts when the key is turned to crank (and the clutch is pressed down, etc). WHen that terminal sees 12 volts, the relay energizes and kicks 12 volts to from the big terminal (battery) to the starter itself.

If you have 12 volts making it to the little terminal during cranking, the interlock circuit would appear to be working. You can further test the solenoid if you desire. But a solenoid either works or it doesnt - they dont generally create a slow cranking situation, etc.

Good luck bud.

HISSIN50 · Dec 18, 2005

BTW, using reverse for a compression start - you are crazy.

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

Are these the two terminals to jump together to test the starter? Just wanna check...

HISSIN50 said:
BTW, using reverse for a compression start - you are crazy.

lol, I'll try a lot of stuff!

RIO5.0 · Dec 18, 2005

with the starter as it is in your pic...Pos to the RED.... Neg any bolt that looks like a decent ground..

Jumping it would be the Red and the small Black ground you dont have circled...stick a screwdriver in there and hit the Red and then touch the small a Black...Bam, she should crank...you need the key in the ON position...back when i was 14 or so we started our old beaters like that...

Watch out playing when its outside the car...when you connect power to it she's gonna flip right over...Be prepared...
Put it in a vise if your gonna test it to keep the mother secured...

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

RIO5.0 said:
with the starter as it is in your pic...Pos to the RED.... Neg any bolt that looks like a decent ground...
Watch out playing when its outside the car...when you connect power to it she's gonna flip right over...Be prepared...
Put it in a vise if your gonna test it to keep the mother secured...

It's still on the stang. I have Wednesday morning off, my dad's gonna give me a hand jumping the starter to see if it's the starter or just the solenoid. Is the solenoid a seperate piece that mounts to the starter, or is it all 1 piece? (as in, can I replace just the solenoid?)

urban96 · Dec 18, 2005

all 1 piece as far as i know. i didnt see any way to detach it

i also have my stock starter collectin dust in my garage i think, its kinda rusty and has about 130K miles on it tho

RIO5.0 · Dec 18, 2005

Not really sure on that??? I would think so as most can be replaced, but I haven't personally replace just the soleniod....If its the original starter then I would replace the entire unit myself....luck being the way it is, youll replace the soleniod then the starter will taqke a dump...amnit:
Check your Haynes on testing it...they have the skinny on that stuff...

CManT1914 · Dec 18, 2005

urban96 said:
all 1 piece as far as i know. i didnt see any way to detach it

i also have my stock starter collectin dust in my garage i think, its kinda rusty and has about 130K miles on it tho

I didn't think there was a way. Looks like it's all one piece.

RIO5.0 said:
Not really sure on that??? I would think so as most can be replaced, but I haven't personally replace just the soleniod....If its the original starter then I would replace the entire unit myself....luck being the way it is, youll replace the soleniod then the starter will taqke a dump...amnit:
Check your Haynes on testing it...they have the skinny on that stuff...

I will probably just replace the whole assembly. You gotta take one off to get to the other anyway, might as well huh? You're right, my luck, I'd replace one, and the other one would go kaput. I will look in my manual tomorrow.

Starter gone bad I think

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