Starter?

[94GTCoupe]

hey guy's.here's the problem.got in the stang to go to a BBQ.turned the key,car started but the starter gear stayed in while the car was running.turned the key to the off position,but the starter was still engaged,turning the engine.

i disconnected the neg battery cable,then reconnected it.the starter was not turning anymore.
put key in,started it again,same thing.starter stayed engaged while the engine was running and in the off position.

i'm thinking the starter took a poop.if there's something i missed please let me know.Kragen closes at 7pm.and i'm not sure if there open tomorrow.

 

[HISSIN50]

If the solenoid is latching, the solenoid is the issue. If it's an interlock issue (not as likely IMHO), then you have to deal with that. It can also be a hung drive.

Because of the situation, it's a PITA to test. The starter relay is in the underhood fusebox (middle relay of 3 IIRC). If you start the car and the starter runs-on, remove the relay (it's tough to remove) and if the starter stops, it's an interlock issue. If the starter runs-on, it's the solenoid or a hung starter drive.

Because it happens like clockwork, I'd just remove the starter and have it bench tested. FWIW, parts stores should be open tomorrow. Hours might be limited.

 

[94GTCoupe]

had it bench tested,check's fine.they ran it 5 time's,passed every time.

thank's for the input,Hissin.i'll check on it tomorrow,it's getting dark now and it's a PITA trying to work on something in my apt complex seeing as how all my tools are in my brothers garage.also need to get a new multimeter,mine died a few month ago.need to check on a few thing's.

 

[94GTCoupe]

still same problem.here's what i did so far.

1.reinstalled starter.
2.pulled the ignition switch.
3.checked all the wiring going to the ignition switch.they all looked good.
4.reinstalled switch.
5.started car.started fine.the starter operated normally.i shut it off and started it 5 times to be sure.normal all times.
6.bolted the switch to the column.started car.normal.let it run.
7.reinstalled the knee panel.cars been running for about 7 mins.
8.shut car off.started it again.
9.same as before.starter will run with the engine.turn key to off position,starter still going.disconnected the neg battery cable.
10.replaced the ignition switch with a known good one.
11.started the car,starter still runs with engine,will keep running with key in off position.

12.Hissin,when the starter was still running after i turned the key to the off position,i removed the middle relay.starter kept going.i,m pretty sure the ignition switch is fine,as is the wiring.does it sound like the starter solenoid to you?

i,m at a loss on this one.just the other day,i was thinking how well the stang's been runningi think i,ll pull the starter again tomorrow and press Kragen to replace it.it has a lifetime warrenty.plus when they tested it,the guy did'nt look like he knew exactly what he was doing.had that happen before,they would test a part and say it was good,only for it to be bad.

if anyone has some input,please, i'm all ears.

 

[HISSIN50]

If you pulled the starter relay (underhood fusebox), you divorced the 'start circuit' from the ignition to the starter solenoid. Ergo I agree with your conclusion that the ignition switch is not the issue.

A latched solenoid sounds likely to me. One last test (PITA to do) is to put a test light on your normally-open solenoid terminal and ground the other end of the test light. When it runs on, if the test light is on, the solenoid is still pulling power (surmise it's latched). If the test light is off, the starter gear itself is stuck and hanging (though the starter receives no power).

Rather than pissing with all that, I would just swap the thing out like you suggested. A bench test can't replicate the heat soak involved when the starter is installed, and heat eats electrical items.

Good luck bud.

 

[94GTCoupe]

thanks for the help,Hissin.using my meter(test light got cooked yesterday),while the starter was still running with the key in the off position,i checked the post where the small wire connects to the starter,it still had power.

was that the correct spot to test?if so,new starter it is.

 

[HISSIN50]

thanks for the help,Hissin.using my meter(test light got cooked yesterday),while the starter was still running with the key in the off position,i checked the post where the small wire connects to the starter,it still had power.

was that the correct spot to test?if so,new starter it is.

This was done with the starter relay removed? If so, there's a short-to-power in the S-terminal wiring. The start signal from the ignition goes to the starter relay's coil, and battery power leaves the relay and goes to that small piggyback solenoid wire you tested. That small (spade connector) wire should not have power with the key not set to crank.

If the little wire is only hot with the relay installed, swap the relay with one of the others to see if your relay is latched (you can test continuity across 87 and 30 if you want as well).

You can see the numbers on the relay if you hold it with the terminals facing you. Put your meter on the terminals that go to 85 and 86 and be sure neither reads 12 volts (one of those is ground and the other goes back to your ignition switch, after it goes through the clutch switch).

 

[94GTCoupe]

This was done with the starter relay removed? If so, there's a short-to-power in the S-terminal wiring. The start signal from the ignition goes to the starter relay's coil, and battery power leaves the relay and goes to that small piggyback solenoid wire you tested. That small (spade connector) wire should not have power with the key not set to crank.

If the little wire is only hot with the relay installed, swap the relay with one of the others to see if your relay is latched (you can test continuity across 87 and 30 if you want as well).

You can see the numbers on the relay if you hold it with the terminals facing you. Put your meter on the terminals that go to 85 and 86 and be sure neither reads 12 volts (one of those is ground and the other goes back to your ignition switch, after it goes through the clutch s witch).

At work now.i tested at the small wire on the starter with the relay installed.i also switched relays around.still have the same problem.will test relays later.


Posted via Mobile Device

 

[94GTCoupe]

got it running.

Hissin,i checked all the relay's like you described,they were all good.double checked the wiring.checked for 12v at the small wire at the starter while turning the key to start position,had 12v.no power when i let the key go.

also pulled the small wire off the starter while it was cranking the engine over with the key in off position,the starter kept cranking with it disconnected.

everything in the starting system checked out.i pulled the starter and exchanged it.all's good now.

Hissin,thanks for all your help.where would we all be without you.

 

[HISSIN50]

Nicely done.

I know it was a PITA to dissect the circuit, but I do it even if I am pretty sure what an issue is. It makes me feel better (as you probably know, in the car repair world, this is referred to as knowing a new part is a solution versus a guess).

I can't ever reach that slide-on terminal so I use the starter relay removal to break the circuit. Your method is textbook however (and how I do it on foxes).

Again, nicely done!

 

[94GTLaserRC]

WE WANT COMPLETE PICS OF THE JOB, along with step-by-step description!!
RC

 

[94GTCoupe]

.sorry,RC.i was'nt thinking pics at the time.maybe next time.