Starters suck. So does the aftermarket!

Blackhawkxx said:

So what I'm hearing is, if we have an issue with the starter, have it rebuilt or do whatever it takes to keep the same one.

Thanks for the info, it may help others down the road.

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No, NEVER get rid of the oem stuff. I wish I still had my old oem flexplate, I would've had the ring gear repaired had I known back then. I got rid of the original starter too. uuuugh. I really want to measure a stock flexplate and compare the results with the aftermarket pieces.

I wish I had access to the machines required, I'd make some starter pinions exactly the correct size for the pioneer flexplate and aftermarket 302 starters to give it a .030 mesh clearance. It's really that simple, but difficult too. lol
One huge advantage to a high power starter like the PM series when mounted on a small diameter II flexplate, that engine SPINS fast due to the ratio. lol

This company has some nice looking Mustang II parts, but only for manual transmission. A steel bellhousing for 157T that is made to clear the firewall of a II? Cool stuff. I contacted them, asking if they sell anything for Mustang II automatics, he said manual is all they do. I wonder if everyone on this site inquired similarly, that they might decide to start selling II C4 SFI bellhousings, starters, flexplates, etc etc. Would be a dream.

There is a OEM ford flexplate and engine plate for sale on ebay, $229 if anyone wants.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2963688698...pid=5335821607&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

I asked him to measure diameter of the plate and he did, looks like it's 12+ inches, which is interesting, as the aftermarket flexplates are 11.94"

After much measuring, checking, test fitting and re-clocking the starter so that it clears everything properly, I installed it and tested it and all it did is go click click. However after measuring the depth one more time, I decided to install the .065" spacer ring that comes with the pm starter, believing that the clicking was caused by the pinion not having enough free travel room to develop velocity before touching the flexplate teeth. It turns out yes that's exactly what it was. The cranking sound is so nice oh my god, I'd forgotten what my car is supposed to sound like when I hit the key. Lol
The powermaster mastertorque starter comes with a 10 tooth pinion that is 1.155" diameter, while the 9 tooth pinion that comes on the other aftermarket starter I had and all three of the OEM style 1990s 302 starters I tried, are only 1.05" diameter. .105" is a huge difference, considering that you're only supposed to have a max of .035" clearance in the mesh between the gear teeth! That was the whole problem all this time. I don't understand why the pinions are different diameters because I ordered the powermaster for the 157 tooth automatic. The same thing I ordered the other starters to fit, so whats up with that?? After testing the starter many times and it got warmer it did the click click thing a couple of times so I believe it may need an increase in shim thickness perhaps to .075" Or maybe it just won't get that warm again I don't know. The engine never started during testing because it had no fuel connected. On a related note, I learned that this style of starter does not retract by itself from the flexplate once it's meshed it needs to be kicked out by the engine running so if the engine does not start sometimes the pinion will just stay engaged with the flexplate. I read about that the other day. Anyway, to summarize the pioneer plate seems to be decent, but be careful of the welding beadys! If you put a new plate on there check it very carefully along its teeth and remove any of those little beads of steel that might be stuck to it because you will not like it if the starter pinion engages on those. It could destroy things. I have a feeling this is why a lot of people have problems. Both of the last two flex plates I got had those stupid welding beads stuck to the gears. The powermaster starter I used is number 9603. I no longer hate starters quite as much. Oh I almost forgot, It's very important not to make a simple jumper wire on the starter solenoid, if you're going to use the original Ford starter relay as I do. I do not like the idea of having an unfused heavy hot wire going down to the starter it seems a little scary. So the wire that comes from the ignition splits one part goes down to the starter solenoid and the other one goes to the factory Ford solenoid so they both get hit at the same time, and both release at the same time. If you use that little jumper wire on the starter what happens sometimes is right after the engine starts there is a moment when the engine is actually turning the starter over and being a starter motor it will act as a generator in that moment and guess where that 12 volts of power is going to go? Yes straight into the jumped solenoid. Which means the starter won't disengage and will keep running as a generator until you shut the engine off. Not fun.

My very low mileage Holley fuel pump seemed to stop working today, I took it apart, and found some kind of critter build a nest in the vent hole. Mud wasp maybe?? lol Easy fix, and back together, and works now. So I fired the II up, for the first time in many years, open headers, it's pretty loud. I wonder if the neighbors will show up with pitchforks and torches... lol
Listen to that starter... mmmm

Bossed said:

Something I wanted to share just in case anyone runs into this. Few years ago swapped out the AOD in my son’s Mustang for a T5. Bought the T5 along with everything to do the swap. Included in the parts that came with the transmission was a new spacer that goes between the block and bell housing. Got everything put back together, fired it up and the starter was grinding during the cranking cycle. Tried three different starters, two different flywheels with the same result. Turned out to be the NEW spacer plate. The hole for the starter was out of position by over .040 thousandths. Grabbed another plate from a spare engine and it worked perfectly.

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Yes, it's the little details that count!