Stock 5.0L Upgrade questions

It's too much injector. 30 lbs will be fine. You should upgrade the fuel pump anyway. The cam is definately streetable without a tune. Yes, you can use the stock lifters. If you call an exhaust company they will tell you that 3" is too big. Flowmaster recommended a 2-1/4" for my car. I have 2.5.

Copied from FordRacingParts .com catalog

PROPERLY SELECTING ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION COMPONENTS

FUEL PUMPS
Most EFI fuel pumps are rated for flow at 12 volts @ 40 psi. Most vehicle charging systems operate anywhere from 13.2 V to 14.4 V. Within limits, the more voltage you feed a pump (for a given current), the faster it spins, resulting in a higher output of fuel from the same fuel pump. Rating a fuel pump at 12 V should offer a fairly conservative fuel flow rating allowing you to safely determine the pump’s ability to supply an adequate amount of fuel for a particular application, assuming the gauge of wire feeding power to the pump is sufficient to carry the current required.

As previously mentioned, engines actually require a certain mass of fuel, NOT a certain volume of fuel per hour per horsepower. This can offer a bit of confusion since most fuel pumps are rated by volume, and not by mass. To determine the proper fuel pump required, a few mathematical conversions will need to be performed using the following information. There are 3.785 liters in 1 U.S. gallon and 1 gallon of gasoline (0.72 specific gravity @ 65° F) weighs 6.009 lb.

An additional fact to consider regarding the BSFC is that the specific gravity of the fuel that you are using is very important. The fuel that you put in your car should only be obtained from a source which supplies fuel intended for an automobile. Some people make the mistake of using aviation fuel (sometimes referred to as “Av Gas”) thinking that the higher octane of this fuel may offer a performance gain. The problem is that TRUE aviation fuel has a much lower specific gravity (commonly as low as 0.62 to 0.65) than automotive grade fuel (0.72 to 0.76). Herein lies the problem: as previously stated, an engine requires a certain mass of fuel per hour per horsepower, and 1 gallon of aviation gasoline has a lower mass than 1 gallon of automotive gasoline. Since the specific gravity of aviation gasoline is only about 90% that of automotive gasoline, all other things being equal, your engine will run approximately 10% lean by using aviation gasoline. Be sure to take the specific gravity and stoichiometric ratio of your desired fuel into consideration when sizing the fuel pump and injectors.

It is always a good idea to apply a safety factor to account for things such as pump-to-pump variability, voltage loss between the pump and the battery, etc.,so we recommend you multiply the final output of the fuel pump by 0.90 to determine the capacity of the fuel pump at 90% output to be on the safe side. To determine the overall capacity of a fuel pump rated in liters per hour (L/hr), use the following additional conversions:
Do: To Get:
(L/hr)/3.785 U.S. gallons/hr
Multiply above by 6.009 lb/gallon lb/hr
Multiply above by 0.9 Capacity in lb/hr at 90%
Divide above by BSFC “Horsepower Capacity” (flywheel)
So for a fuel pump rated at 110 L/hr for example, supplying a naturally aspirated engine:
110/3.785 = 29.06 U.S. gallons/hr
29.06 x 6.009 = 174.62 lb/hr
174.62 x 0.9 = 157 lb/hr @ 90% capacity
157/0.50 = 314 hp safe naturally aspirated “Horsepower Capacity”

Safe “Horsepower Capacity” @ 40 psi with 12 V assuming 0.5 lb/hp-hr BSFC
60 L/hr pump = 95 lb/hr X 0.90 = 86 lb/hr, safe for up to 170 naturally aspirated flywheel hp
88 L/hr pump = 140 lb/hr X 0.90 = 126 lb/hr, safe for up to 250 naturally aspirated flywheel hp
110 L/hr pump = 175 lb/hr X 0.90 = 157 lb/hr, safe for up to 310 naturally aspirated flywheel hp
155 L/hr pump = 246 lb/hr X 0.90 = 221 lb/hr, safe for up to 440 naturally aspirated flywheel hp
190 L/hr pump = 302 lb/hr X 0.90 = 271 lb/hr, safe for up to 540 naturally aspirated flywheel hp
255 L/hr pump = 405 lb/hr X 0.90 = 364 lb/hr, safe for up to 720 naturally aspirated flywheel hp

Important Note: any type of forced-induction engine, the above maximum power levels will be reduced because as the boost pressure increases, the fuel pressure required from the pump also increases, creating an additional load to the fuel pump, which results in a decreased fuel flow rate at the higher pressure. In order to do proper fuel pump sizing for these applications, a fuel pump map is required, which shows flow rate versus delivery pressure for a given voltage. For example, a 255 L/hr pump at 40 psi may only supply 200 L/hr at 58 psi (40 psi plus 18 lb of boost).

Additionally, if you use a fuel supply line that is not large enough, this can result in decreased fuel flow due to the pressure drop. For example, a 255 L/hr at the pump may only result in 220 L/hr at the fuel rail because as the required pressure increases (due to the pressure loss from the supply line restriction), the maximum flow rate of the pump decreases. Figure 1 shows an example fuel pump map for a pump assembly at a supply voltage of 13 volts




MEASURING FUEL PRESSURE
The above fuel pump sizing information should be regarded as a guideline in selecting the size of pump you need. Once installed in the car, you still need to verify that adequate fuel pressure (at least 39.15 psi across the injector) is maintained at all engine speeds and loads. Do not skip this fuel pressure verification step, as failure to maintain adequate fuel pressure can cause issues ranging from calibration difficulty to engine failure due to running lean.



As mentioned earlier, all injector flow rates published in this catalog have been determined at a pressure of 39.15 psi (270 kPa) across the injector, but what does the phrase “across the injector” mean? To understand this fully, we first need to discuss three different methods of measuring pressure.

The first is called absolute pressure. This is defined as the pressure relative to a complete vacuum, such as would be found in outer space. For instance, atmospheric pressure (the air we breathe) is typically around 14.7 psi absolute (29.93 in Hg) at sea level, depending on temperature and weather conditions. An engine that has a vacuum signal of 12 “inches” simply means that the absolute pressure in the intake manifold is 12 in Hg less than the atmospheric pressure. When you subtract the 12 in Hg from the atmospheric pressure of 29.93 in Hg, you are left with a positive pressure of 17.93 in Hg, or roughly 9 psi absolute as compared to a complete vacuum. Sometimes you will see absolute pressure in psi written as “psia.”

The second is called gauge pressure, which is pressure relative to atmospheric pressure. Gauge pressure is what everyone is most familiar with because it is what you measure when you check the air in your tires or when you connect a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail. An engine which makes 6 psi of boost at sea level is actually equivalent to 20.7 psi absolute (14.7 + 6 = 20.7). Sometimes you will see gauge pressure in psi written as “psig.”

The third is called delta pressure and is very much like gauge pressure, but instead of being relative to atmospheric, it can be relative to any other pressure, such as the pressure in the intake manifold. Sometimes you will see delta pressure in psi written as “psid.” When we quote pressure “across the injector,” what we really mean is the delta pressure (or difference) between the fuel rail and the intake manifold. On most EFI systems (non-MRFS), this is the pressure that the system controls, either by use of a mechanical regulator referenced to the intake manifold (in a traditional or “return” system), or by the use of the FRPT and the PCM (in ERFS). This means that if you connect a fuel rail pressure gauge to the fuel rail
on one of these systems, you will see fuel pressure vary depending on intake manifold pressure. This is because the gauge is measuring gauge pressure, which is relative to atmospheric, but the EFI system is controlling the fuel rail pressure relative to intake manifold pressure which is changing depending on
engine load (your right foot) among other things. On a naturally aspirated engine, the manifold pressure at idle is typically around 10 psia, and the manifold pressure at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) will be atmospheric, so typically at the fuel rail you will see approximately 30 psig at idle and at least 39.15 psig at WOT, depending on whether or not you have ERFS and whether or not it is boosting pressure for one of the reasons mentioned in the previous section. On a forced-induction engine, the highest manifold pressure that the engine can reach will be atmospheric plus the maximum boost your configuration can obtain. This means that to keep 39.15 psid across the injector, the gauge pressure will have to increase by the same amount as the maximum boost.

A couple of examples should make these concepts more clear. First, consider a naturally aspirated conventional (non-ERFS, non-MRFS) EFI system with a mechanical regulator set at the stock pressure setting. The system will try to keep the pressure across the injector at 39.15 psid regardless of engine load, so if you have a fuel pressure gauge attached to the fuel rail, you will see a maximum pressure of 39.15 psig at WOT if the system is doing its job properly. Now consider a forced-induction engine making a maximum of 10 psig boost, also with a conventional EFI system and mechanical regulator set to the stock pressure setting. The system will still try to keep the pressure across the injector at 39.15 psi, so this time your fuel pressure gauge attached to the rail should read a maximum of 39.15 + 10 = 49.15 psig. If it never gets to 49.15 psig at WOT, your fuel system is inadequate for your engine. You will need to either increase the capacity of the pump, minimize the voltage loss between the pump and the battery or decrease the pressure loss between the pump and the engine through the use of larger lines, etc., and re-test. Do NOT try to “tune around” this type of fuel delivery problem. It will bite you in the long run, and can result in hard-to-diagnose problems at best, all the way to engine failure at worst. Note that at WOT, the fuel pump in the forced-induction engine must supply fuel at a higher pressure than in the naturally aspirated engine. As mentioned in the previous section, this means that the fuel pump supplying the forced-induction engine will have a lower maximum flow rate capability than the fuel pump supplying the naturally aspirated engine. This is a critical concept to grasp because it means that in general, for engines with equal brake horsepower, the fuel pump supplying the forced-induction engine will need to have more capacity than the fuel pump supplying the naturally aspirated engine!

If you're going to spend that kind of money to upgrade your motor, you might want to consider a custom cam.

I don't have one, but my understanding is that they aren't that much more expensive than a OTS cam, but that they can make substantially more power with more driveability to boot.

Another route that you might consider that would cost the same or less and give you block splitting power would be a twin turbo kit. I've seen some speak highly of the On3 kit - many others exist.

Good luck..

No need for 42lb injectors at all. Thats way to much.. Im a big fan of the sound of the Ford Racing cams, but there certainly are some better cams out there now. AFR heads are top notch good choice. 3 inch exhaust is to big unless your engine is making like 600 HP, A good H/C/I fox should be anywhere from 280-300 range at the wheels

i would go with a different intake. The SSI i have heard bad things about. i personally like the cobra intake or the trick flow intakes.

GT Convertible said:

i would go with a different intake. The SSI i have heard bad things about. i personally like the cobra intake or the trick flow intakes.

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YEP, they are a PITA! Go with and Edelbrock RPM or RPM II, Holley Systemax, or get a Cobra but have the lower ported by Tmoss. TFS intakes are ok but I'd choose one of the others personally. I have had Cobra and the Holley myself and have another Cobra on my LX. I mostly like the semi-stock look of of them.

24lbs would really be plenty BTW...

F303 is not bad, I had a TFS Stage 1 and liked that as well. AFM has some nice cams and you can find them used for a decent price alot of the time. Custom would be even better, FTI or Bullet Cams could set you up with one.

AFR 185's and stock short block? Probably going to need to massage the pistons some.

Another advantage of a custom cam is the support and no guess work. Be honest with your hp goals and he/she will advise what parts will best complement each other. Most likely your future combo has already been done before and predicted hp numbers should be fairly accurate.

LEATHAL/COUPE said:

I have a stock 5.0 Coupe

I started witth brakes and rear control arms and of course mufflers

Im gathering parts now and preparing the upgrade all at one time

1.AFR 185 Heads
2.BBK 1 5/8th long headers
3.42# MAF/INJECTORS
4.BBK SSI intake,70mm TB,BBK Regulato/Fuel rails
5.Pullies
6. F-303 Cam

my questions i need help with are
1.Is 42# injectors going to work on the stock fuel pump?
2.Does anyone have a rough estimate on Horsepower it will produce?
3.Is that cam to big can it be streetable if the ECU is reprogrammed?
4.Can I use the stock lifters on that new cam?
5.Are 3" exhaust pipes to much?

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If you're sticking with a stock 302ci short block I suggest the following:

1. TFS 170cc FAC heads - $995 from Summit Racing.
2. 24lb injectors. You could also use 30lb'ers but on a H/C/I 302, it's likely their duty cycle will need to be reduced with the computer tune. Go for 42lb'ers only if you're planning to add forced induction later on.
3. 255lph fuel pump.
4. Holley Systemax II intake with 75mm TB and 80mm MAF.
5. CompCams XE270HR-14 cam.
6. 2.5" exhaust. That's enough to support 500 crank HP. Go 3" only if you plan to add forced induction later on and if you do, plan on buying a stronger aftermarket block as well.

You should see 320-340rwhp from the above combo when tuned properly, and that's enough to get your 1/4 mile ET comfortably into the 11's.