Strange Cooling Problem, Please Help....

[smokediver27]

Ok,, quick rundown,,,,water pump is less than a year old, brand new 180 thermostat with two tiny holes drilled in it, thermostat IS in the right way, new rad hoses, new Water/coolant, 70% water. Rad cap is pretty new....

When the car gets up near operating temperature, the UPPPER radiator hose collapses flat, until it hits 180 (i guess), and the thermostat opens, then the upper radiator hose opens back up and the car cools back down. Cycle repeats itself. I'm at a total loss........and my theories are running out... Also, the upper radiator hose collapses flat sometimes after I shut the car off (I'm assuming that thermostat is in closed position when this happens...)

Further info to consider is that I took my overflow out of the car, and cleaned like 3 inches of nastiness out of the bottom, had too rinse it out numerous times, and some of what came out looked like gobs of clay.

Only remaining theories I have.....

1. Water pump sucks too hard ( i know,,,pretty dumb)

2. Build up of sludge in the radiator ( i did run the prestone system flush through, followed by another clean flush, and water came out clear.)

Help me out guys,,,,,I'm at a total loss......
Jason

 

[smokediver27]

Further info....
When I run the car to the point it warms up,,,the coolant will actually slowly spill out of the fill for the radiator,,and the bubbles dont seem to stop......head gasket is coming to mind,,,,but the car runs great,,,,compression test is good, no coolant disappearing,,and oil stays clean.....seems there is air being introduced to the system somewhere...but I cant figure out where.....

 

[67stang390]

My lower radiator hose has a spring in it that keeps it open, but my upper doesn't. Maybe you could find an upper hose with a spring in it? Not sure if this helps at all. I'll follow this thread as I'm having kind of odd cooling problems also but I think mine are fan speed related.

 

[S/CBlack95GT]

Did you install a stock "real" Ford replacement pump?

 

[smokediver27]

No, I installed a remanufactured water pump from napa......does this sound like a problem?????

 

[S/CBlack95GT]

Well if the pump rotation was wrong then that would collapse the top hose. But that should be based on the belt rotation and I don't think you could route the belt in a way to allow for that. Its getting late I cant think straight.

 

[95stocker]

my uncle owns a NAPA and even he will attest to the overall ****tiness of NAPA remanufactured pumps. They often have pinholes or problems with priming themselves. Go get yourself an aftermarket pump if you find out the pump is causing the problems.

In my opinon I would say the pump or themostat is your problem. By process of elimination, the cap would cause leakage and or overheating. A clogged radiator would do the same. But you say your top hose is collapsing so I would say get a new thermostat first because they can be bad from the factory sometimes and they're cheap. If that doesn't fix it it's your pump, because if it isn't priming and pumping anything, then you'll create a vacuum between your radiator and your engine's water jacket. The natural flow of a liquid is to create equilibrium(to make hot and cold the same temperature....aka your engine and your radiator), and if the water isn't being pumped into the engine block, it will attempt to flow backwards through the top hose as this is it's only route. But like you said, once it gets to temperature the pipe opens back up. That also leads me to believe it's your pump since the thermostat is working at the temp it's supposed to. When your thermostat opens up it will allow flow of water through the water jacket in the block in the direction it's supposed to flow, but it will not be forced if your pump is bad, it will however allow your upper hose to go from collapsed back to normal as the pressure has been released. It's hard for me to explain right now. But if you need more help let me know. Some of this might not make sense to you since it's late and I'm not checkin anything. PM me if you need anything. Hope this helps

 

[smokediver27]

thanks for the tips 95stocker...

few more impressions....

just went out and checked it again....the bubbles do not really seem to appear until after the thermostat opens up...the bubbles seem fine..kinda like you would expect from pouring a coke or beer...but i can see how these will accumulate over time and create larger air pockets when system is closed...

one more thing....my rad hose will sometimes collapse....AFTER THE CAR HAS BEEN SHUT OFF....

does this discredit the theory of water pump being bad...or could water pump be pumping soo much air into engine..that after the engine is shut off its pulling some weird reverse vacuum on the hose???

 

[95stocker]

ok, i was reading through your initial posts again, and by compression test I assume it was a cylinder compression test to see if you had communication between the combustion chamber and the water jacket? When you did this, did you just take one plug out at a time or did you also pull an adjacent plug as well? If you do have, say, a leaky head gasket, pulling the adacent plug will give the air somewhere to escape to and allow you to find the leak faster. However if you did the compression test in this manner then you should be ok from the head gasket point of view. Also you said you put coolant flush in the system, but did you pressure test the radiator to make sure you don't have any clogs due to sediment such as sand or other things that wouldn't be dissolved by the coolant flush?

 

[95stocker]

oh yea, one more thing while i'm thinking about it. Take your radiator cap off ( it needs to be pretty cool). Go boil some water and put the cap in it. You should be able to see the cap's spring recoil due to the heat. If it doesn't move, your cap is bad, go buy a quality Stant cap.

 

[smokediver27]

in regards to the compression test, I did it one plug at a time, did not take out adjacent plugs when i did it,,, so i am assuming I should try again ...Should i pull the plug next to it or across from it???

Also, in regards to radiator cap,,,,it wouldnt be introducing air into the system when the cap is off and I'm watching the coolant bubble. I will double check the cap though just to make sure, I'm at the point now that I'm really starting to believe air is being introduced into the system...somehow...someway,,,,and that in turn is somehow someway collapsing my upper rad hose......lol.....this car is a sickness...couldnt sleep last night thinking about the problem.....

 

[95stocker]

in regards to the compression test, I did it one plug at a time, did not take out adjacent plugs when i did it,,, so i am assuming I should try again ...Should i pull the plug next to it or across from it???

Also, in regards to radiator cap,,,,it wouldnt be introducing air into the system when the cap is off and I'm watching the coolant bubble. I will double check the cap though just to make sure, I'm at the point now that I'm really starting to believe air is being introduced into the system...somehow...someway,,,,and that in turn is somehow someway collapsing my upper rad hose......lol.....this car is a sickness...couldnt sleep last night thinking about the problem.....

You should remove the plug next to it, the easiest way to do it is to take all four plugs out of one side and do all the compression tests, put them back on, and do the same on the other side. Also, when you're watching your coolant bubble, is this before or after the thermostat opens up?....or both? If you're seeing bubbling before the thermostat opens up, the only place you could be sucking air into the system would be one or both of the head gaskets. If it's after or both then it could be the head gasket or a pinhold/leak in the pump (which would cause leakage as well).

Check the following: Is your thermostat is opening properly? When the car is cold check the "cold full" level on the coolant reservoir, then check it again when it's warm for the "hot full" level. If the coolant levels rise and fall as designed, your thermostat is ok. If your car does not begin to overheat after the engine is warm than I would say your pump is working fine. I would say that you have communication between your water jacket and your combustion chamber which would explain the bubbles. However, that does not explain your upper tube collapsing.

THIS WILL BE THE EASIEST WAY TO TEST FOR COMBUSTION CHAMBER TO WATER JACKET COMMUNICATION: get an air fitting for your spark plug hole, hook the fitting up to an air compressor, then check for bubbles, if you have bubbles, you need a new head gasket, if you have no bubbles, you may still have a head gasket leak, but with the open air to the water jacket.(To be more clear, do this in the same manner that I suggested you do the compression test. Also.....you do not need to turn the car over to do this test.)

BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, DO THIS!!!! When the car is cold, open the cap, is there oil or residue floating on top?

let me know how it goes

 

[Badlilstang]

I didnt read all the posts but I do recommend a stewert Components water pump if you decide to swap. A spring in the top hose would help prevent the hose from collapsing but Im not even sure if mine has a spring in it. That would trip me out to see my top radiator hose collapse soon as the thermostat opened. Let us know what you find out.

 

[smokediver27]

Ok...heres another thing that makes me cringe....I often times see water on the ground behind my tailpipes if i have been idling for a while...ive wiped it up before and it didnt appear green like coolant...but ive always thought it was quite a bit to just be condensation.......

 

[Badlilstang]

Normally if your burning coolant the car is gonna smoke pretty good if you have that much water coming from your tail pipes. Ive seen quiet a bit of water on the ground from condensation alone. I feel your pain tho as ive been through wierd cooling problems befor. Just got off phone with my mechanic friend and he said he has only seen two things cause that.. radiator not being completely filled with water ( air in system ) or a weak top radiator hose. Just seems to me thats not your problem tho.