supercharger question

[mogs01gt]

Mogs, I would like to get your answer on this question: If 2 cars have peak numbers that are the same, one a KB and one a Centri, which one would win a 1/4 mile race? Lets say they are both standard entry level blower kits making no more than 400 rwhp. Same suspension set-up, same tires, same tranny's, equally talented drivers.

Personally I do not think the top end charge of the centri would be enough to bring it back from the lead the KB would have.

same torque outputs?? I will put my money on the Centrifugal but I would definitely look at the gearing first. A centrifugal isnt the same without the correct gears but why build your car wrong anyways Actually I would still put my money on the Centrifugal type. Time and time again they perform better at the track.

 

[340.29m/s]

same torque outputs?? I will put my money on the Centrifugal but I would definitely look at the gearing first. A centrifugal isnt the same without the correct gears but why build your car wrong anyways Actually I would still put my money on the Centrifugal type. Time and time again they perform better at the track.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Not everyone wants to run 4.30 gears in their car to make up the difference though. Like I said, most stock cars with Centrifugal chargers that I have seen are usually dyno queens. Meaning they make lots of power on paper, but can't transfer it to the pavement.

If low-end torque isn't a big deal, for comparison, why do the old 2.73 geared 5.0L's run so close to the 99-up 3.27 geared 4.6's in stock trim? And don't come back with the weight difference excuse, because a couple of hundred pounds are only good for a tenth or two. Sure the later model SOHC 4.6L actually peaks a little higher than the OVH 5.0L, but the 5.0L comes in nearly 1000rpm lower and shows it at the track!

 

[mogs01gt]

Not everyone wants to run 4.30 gears in their car to make up the difference though. Like I said, most stock cars with Centrifugal chargers that I have seen are usually dyno queens. Meaning they make lots of power on paper, but can't transfer it to the pavement.

If low-end torque isn't a big deal, for comparison, why do the old 2.73 geared 5.0L's run so close to the 99-up 3.27 geared 4.6's in stock trim? And don't come back with the weight difference excuse, because a couple of hundred pounds are only good for a tenth or two. Sure the later model SOHC 4.6L actually peaks a little higher than the OVH 5.0L, but the 5.0L comes in nearly 1000rpm lower and shows it at the track!

Did you just say a stock any 5.0 can run the same times at as a stock 99+ 4.6?? and how much crack did you smoke this morning??

If these precious Kenne Bell's are the track gods, then why isnt the fastest SOHC with a power adder car running one??

 

[kah9911]

I am going to have to disagree with you about who will win Mogs. I still have the stock gears in my car but when I shift at 5500 or so I drop down to ~3000. Now look and the torque at that RPM for the KB and an S-trim. I bet the KB is higher (I would like to see graphs if anyone has them). So that means the KB car will have an advantage from then until the S gets the torque back up to the same level as the KB. But then it will happen 4 time during the 1/4 mile and that would put it handily to the KB. So I think all things equal the KB will win but I know at the track I see some Cent run some good times and really take off at about the 1/8th.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Did you just say a stock any 5.0 can run the same times at as a stock 99+ 4.6?? and how much crack did you smoke this morning??

Which one of us is smoking the crack genius....read it again. I said that a stock 5.0L will run close to a '99-up GT, not run the same times. Are we illiterate now as well as narrow minded?

If these precious Kenne Bell's are the track gods, then why isnt the fastest SOHC with a power adder car running one??

Again with putting words in my mouth!?! I didn't say that the KB's were “track gods”, I said that put more of their power to the pavement. Your average Centrifugal doesn't go anywhere near as fast as their numbers would indicate. I'll take a 400hp KB over a 400hp Centrifugal any day! Yeah, the fastest SOHC car is running a Centrifugal, but go take a look at what kind of boost is being run through it's huffer to make those numbers. It's a far cry from your average 9psi Paxton, ATI or Vortech in comparison to a 9psi KB! And the KB remains fully street able....can you still say that for the fastest Centrifugally blown car?

 

[WhiteDevil69]

If these precious Kenne Bell's are the track gods, then why isnt the fastest SOHC with a power adder car running one??

Because the 2.2L just came out

 

[WhiteDevil69]

Did you just say a stock any 5.0 can run the same times at as a stock 99+ 4.6?? and how much crack did you smoke this morning??

If these precious Kenne Bell's are the track gods, then why isnt the fastest SOHC with a power adder car running one??

This is like trying to change peoples mind about politics man, and there is no need for you two to start insulting one another. Geez, nobody can have an argument anymore without getting all defensive, the two of you should be put in time out

 

[Gearbanger 101]

This is like trying to change peoples mind about politics man, and there is no need for you two to start insulting one another. Geez, nobody can have an argument anymore without getting all defensive, the two of you should be put in time out

Whaddaya talking about…..I told him he was a genius. And for the record....I wasn't the one who insinuated the initial slanderous remarks! I just have trouble turning the other cheek when someone makes a stupid comment in attempts to insult my intelligence. I can do that all on my own thanks!

 

[mogs01gt]

This is exacly why everyone that has any tech, left this site.

Go ahead and waste your money on the Kenne Bell. Every one with ATIs, Paxtons or Vortechs will have not problems handing you your asses at the track.

You people have yet to show any better performance from a Kenne Bell compared to a Centrifugal. Go ahead and go off dyno numbers, I will love to walk all over you will my all motor car.

 

[02mingreyconv]

I was excited at first when I started to read this thread but it pretty soon became useless bickering back and forth.

You can not compare a positive displacement blower to a centrifugal huffer. period. They are made (in my opinion) for different purposes.

If you have 2 well prepared cars, one with a positive displacement supercharger (lets say the oh-so popular KB) and the other with a centrigugal supercharger then the centri will almost always win at the track.

BUT I bet you that you will have alot more fun driving your KB around town. The centris just don't get the same kick-in-the ass feel.

We all have our preferences. Some want to be fast at the track while others want to experience the power on a twistin mountain road.

 

[Laser-01-gt]

if you are talking about entry level kits, by entry level i mean inder 9#'s of boostor less. a positive displacement supercharger will be quicker, all things being equal. the reason is that a positive displacement blower will have a much broader powerband. a typical KB blower will make over 300ft/lbs of torque from 1500-redline. peak power will be the same as a vortech or paxton, but average hp will be lower. the advantage that centrifugal have over positive displacement is they are nearly as efficient as the boost level rise. there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but at lower boost level the positive displacement blower will be quicker. the disavdantage is cost.

 

[Laser-01-gt]

why doesnt it? Why do you guys think our cars need all this torque?? We do not have heavy cars. We have lighter cars that like to rev high. So this gives us the advantage of running higher gears which produces torque at the wheels and still allows to rev higher in our RPM band.

Just because forced induction may change our cars power out put, it does not change how our cars make the power.

SOHC like to rev, use gears to make up the torque difference.

I just read the article you gave the link for. The reason it does not apply to this situation is that the article assumes that engine one has a max speed of 3000 rpm, while engine 2 has a max speed of 6000 rpm. not only that, but engine 2 makes twice the power ans engine 1.
in the case if positive displacement vs cintrifigal, power is the same, high end torque is the same, but the positive displacement make more low and mid rang power.

 

[DJsZincGT]

Threads like this is exactly what ruined Stangnet. Period!

 

[mogs01gt]

anyone thinks that Centrifugal blowers are dyno queens, please tell Tim Matherly to stop using his Procharger and slap on a SWEEET Kenne Bell.

 

[showstopper2]

Mog,

I have the same blower Matherly does in my car and it rocks!! can move a ton of air with the stock pulley let alone anything smaller. great track blower for a street type car. the sky's the limit with my car once I can build a shortblock and have ported heads and cams. need longtubes and x pipe too so it can breathe. Matherly makes well into the 500's without intercooler so that should tell you something. my tuner runs in NMRA Real Street and is very friendly with all of them so I get to hear all the pro's and con's of each blower in that class.


gotta give credit to the KB's as well though. they make great numbers in a much different approach. Godly they aren't, but they are tough from stoplight to stoplight no doubt.......

 

[340.29m/s]

Like I said before - I was not trying to say which blower was better. Personally I don't care what anyone buys with their own money.

All I was talking about was Mogs' false statements.

 

[mogs01gt]

Until any of you can prove me wrong, my statements are all true. You guys havent come up with any facts or truths. You have only posted your opinions.

I just read the article you gave the link for. The reason it does not apply to this situation is that the article assumes that engine one has a max speed of 3000 rpm, while engine 2 has a max speed of 6000 rpm. not only that, but engine 2 makes twice the power ans engine 1.

read the article over. It states clearly that the 3000 and 6000 rpms, is the peak torque ratings for each motor. Not the max the motor car spin at.

 

[prsrizdgt]

Don't know if anyone will feel like reading this far into this thread, but I would like to add one more thing...okay 2 more things.

1.) What differance does it make what blower is better or which one is faster? If I am making 400 HP and 400 RWT, and I am gonna race, there will be cars I race making less power, making more power, have better tunes, worse tunes, bigger this, smaller that.......and usually that is because they had more money than me or less money than me to spend. Moral to this is this....your gonna loose sometimes, and your gonna win sometimes no matter what blower you are running. My point to building my car was to best Camaros and T/A's which brings me to #2......lets save this bantering back and forth for the dips**ts who really think they are the track gods.....the Chevy owners.

 

[mrpositraction]

This is exacly why everyone that has any tech, left this site.

Go ahead and waste your money on the Kenne Bell. Every one with ATIs, Paxtons or Vortechs will have not problems handing you your asses at the track.

You people have yet to show any better performance from a Kenne Bell compared to a Centrifugal. Go ahead and go off dyno numbers, I will love to walk all over you will my all motor car.

:damnit:

It is a lost cause fella's, he had is mind made up before he came in here. Now he is just mad and resulting to insults.