supporting mods for trick flow HCI kit

iLkYsPoNy · May 3, 2007

The Green GT said:
Hes got that covered. lol Cobra RR

And Sam, why dont you get some 30# inj? I always thought that you would come close to maxing 24's out with the trickflow kit.

I'm pretty sure TFS recommended 24# for the kit. That's what they used when testing them....

Trick Flow Website said:
NOTE: Kits were dyno-tested on a 306 cubic inch engine with 9.5:1 compression, a 70mm throttle body, 24lb injectors, 190 lph fuel pump, mass air, and 10° base timing

fiveoho · May 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
I'm always open to a good discussion
so
I'll state the obvious

they might AND they might not be

How about a question or two for you

1) What data are you gonna use to determine what size to use on your
upcoming 306 h/c/i combo

2) Could there be any other factors that would make you choose one
size over the other

Grady

hmmm. i remember seeing a chart somewhere listing the amount of fuel/horsepower per injector size. no idea where i seen it. lots a engine builders / performance shops i spoke with suggested 24s for a similiar setup. not enough?

5spd GT · May 3, 2007

My personal preference is 24's for a h/c/i setup unless you are revving 6500+.

30's if you can get a tune...24's if you can't.

fiveoho · May 3, 2007

not exactly what i remember seeing, but here is something....

http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php

if the site is trustworthy, keeping the BSFC figure defaulted at .5 on the 'Fuel Injector Max Capacity Worksheet' toward the bottom, it lists 307 max hp for 8 24lb injectors.

i guess its a toss up. maybe you should do 30's.

i've just always thought 24's would be sufficent.....

fiveoho · May 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
I'm always open to a good discussion
so
I'll state the obvious

they might AND they might not be

a toss up. i think u are right : 30's would be a safer way to go.

if you have "more injector than you need" , you have to use it all? an AFPR will help with that?

iLkYsPoNy · May 3, 2007

Damn ya'll.... now I'm second guessing myself on my 24# injectors. Too late though, cars going under the knife tonight.

final5-0 · May 3, 2007

How about we start with this reasoning ... if I may be so bold.

When it comes to fuel ... I'd rather be on the fat than lean side

Basic combo application:

street car light strip use
306 short block
NA combo using after market parts
full supporting mods
oem fuel pressure
optimized tune
stick trans

A combo of this nature could very well go 300 to 325 rwhp so ...............
lets use 350 rwhp for a margin or error on the safe side

Most of those injector formulas deal with fwhp so ...........
using a 15% loss we are looking at 412 fwhp X .85 = 350 rwhp

Consider these things as well

1) Some say the loss is more like 17%
more fuel needed still

2) If you run an auto trans ... you'll have even more loss
more fuel needed still

But hey ... What are we now gonna do with this 412 fwhp value
and
Maybe some peeps would rather use a different value to work with

I'm just tryin to get some thinkin goin on here ........ rather than ...........

"Lets use 24's cause someone else did or said to do it"

Grady

fiveoho · May 3, 2007

why does trickflow suggest running 24# ?

gcomfx.com · May 3, 2007

The Green GT said:
Hes got that covered. lol Cobra RR

I only seen a list of fox's in his sig, and it looks like a stock hood in the pic. I wasn't sure who or what he has.

gcomfx.com · May 3, 2007

fiveoho said:
why does trickflow suggest running 24# ?

Grady never said it WOULDN'T work....

If you have the equipment (tuner) then why not buy the next step up to lower the percentage usage on the injectors. Why push an injector 95% when you can get bigger set for basically the same money and push them 70% and have room to grow. Say a dry shot of nitrous.

I went with 42s... why? Cause some day I know my new combo won't impress me any more and I'll want MORE.

fiveoho · May 3, 2007

o i know. i just wondered.

sage2k · May 3, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
Just making sure you know you will need a taller hood than stock with a 1" spacer.

Cobra RR hood

sage2k · May 3, 2007

The Green GT said:
And Sam, why dont you get some 30# inj? I always thought that you would come close to maxing 24's out with the trickflow kit.

Cause 24's are so cheap
If they are too small i can just buy some 30's

gcomfx.com · May 3, 2007

sage2k said:
Cobra RR hood

I started out talking about and to the right person. Then some how I got all fubared with the Fox owner in here. Sorry about that. I'm getting old.

Stanger007 · May 3, 2007

sage2k said:
Cobra RR hood

LOL he has to sit on a box when he drives to see over the cowl.

Ok maybe that is exaggeration but that sucker is tall.

Wes

sage2k · May 3, 2007

yeah i wish i had a cobra R, same nice looks but more friendly for daily driving

gcomfx.com · May 3, 2007

If I buy a new hood it will be the RR. They just look mean. Plus I'm 6" tall.

final5-0 · May 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
How about we start with this reasoning ... if I may be so bold.

When it comes to fuel ... I'd rather be on the fat than lean side

Basic combo application:

street car light strip use
306 short block
NA combo using after market parts
full supporting mods
oem fuel pressure
optimized tune
stick trans

A combo of this nature could very well go 300 to 325 rwhp so ...............
lets use 350 rwhp for a margin or error on the safe side

Most of those injector formulas deal with fwhp so ...........
using a 15% loss we are looking at 412 fwhp X .85 = 350 rwhp

Consider these things as well

1) Some say the loss is more like 17%
more fuel needed still

2) If you run an auto trans ... you'll have even more loss
more fuel needed still

But hey ... What are we now gonna do with this 412 fwhp value
and
Maybe some peeps would rather use a different value to work with

I'm just tryin to get some thinkin goin on here ........ rather than ...........

"Lets use 24's cause someone else did or said to do it"

Grady

Well ...............

Back to the top for Mr. BlueSaph95GT
and
I'll quote myself here I guess

I've seen no reply to my Q since lunch
so ......
Nobody else has an opinion about using 24's or 30's with a h/c/i combo

Anybody see a flaw in my reasoning here
or
Anybody have a reason to use different values from mine

This inj Q comes up time and time again ... here is a chance to deal with
this issue once and for all

Grady

Stanger007 · May 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
Anybody see a flaw in my reasoning here
or
Anybody have a reason to use different values from mine

This inj Q comes up time and time again ... here is a chance to deal with
this issue once and for all

I'll bite... here's how I'd went about calculating my injector requirements... (straight from EEC Analyzer documentation)

((Power x BSFC) x (1 + Safety Margin))/Number of Injectors = pounds/hour

((375 x .50) x (1 + .20))/8 = 28.13lb/hr

I'm using 375FWHP (300RWHP + 25%), a BSFC of .50 (.45-.50 for N/A, .65-.68 for F/I) and a safety margin of 20%. My calculations err on the side of being over-injected, which as Grady said, is way better than being under-injected.

Run the math yourself, see what you come up with.

Wes

BlueSaph95GT · May 3, 2007

thanks for all the help guys. sorry I didn't get a chance to respond - i teach high school and coach baseball right after school so I didn't get a chance to sign on earlier. lets see if I've got this all figured out:

30lb injectors
MAF calibrated for 30#'ers (what brand???? Help!)
TFS throttle body elbow
65/70 mm tb - how much will the stocker hurt me at the moment???
adjustable fpr
255 lph pump
new lifters
$$$ for a tune

stroked bottom end is next year - i'm thinking one of the new FRPP boss block 347's (i get my summer checks at the end of each may from my high school - aka mustang cash).

btw, i already have the stuff in my signature waiting - the pulleys, gears, subframes, etc. thanks everyone...any other suggestions/items for the swap are welcome.

OH YEAH...one last question - what color Permatex RTV/gasket maker have you guys had luck with for the front and rear of the intake manifold???

supporting mods for trick flow HCI kit

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

fiveoho

5spd GT

"the 5.0 owns all"

fiveoho

fiveoho

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

final5-0

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fiveoho

gcomfx.com

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sage2k

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sage2k

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gcomfx.com

Stanger007

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final5-0

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BlueSaph95GT

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