supporting mods for trick flow HCI kit

Stanger007 · May 3, 2007

BlueSaph95GT said:
MAF calibrated for 30#'ers (what brand???? Help!)
adjustable fpr
$$$ for a tune

OH YEAH...one last question - what color Permatex RTV/gasket maker have you guys had luck with for the front and rear of the intake manifold???

If you are getting a tune you do not need the FPR.

Ask your tuner what brand MAF they like to work with - again, if you are getting a tune, don't worry about getting one calibrated to the injectors... this will be done in the tune.

I've had great luck with the blue. Lay a thick bead, let it sit for about 15min till the outside gets somewhat rubberized then using studs or long bolts, guide the intake STRAIGHT DOWN then torque to spec.

Wes

BlueSaph95GT · May 3, 2007

hmmmm...so i don't need the FPR...will the car run well enough without some toying with the fuel pressure for me to drive it to the dyno/tuner??? i thought our cars have some serious idle surge issues without tuning or at minimum a bump in fuel pressure???

the tuner i'm planning to use is about a 15 mile drive...will i make it?

Stanger007 · May 3, 2007

Yeah I don't see why you wouldn't make it - for the trip use your stock MAF w/ the 30#s... it'll still be pig rich but that is a lot better than being lean.

The other way to look at it is that trailering your car to the tuner is probably less than buying a AFPR and less of a hassle.

Wes

final5-0 · May 3, 2007

Stanger007 said:
I'll bite... here's how I'd went about calculating my injector requirements... (straight from EEC Analyzer documentation)

((Power x BSFC) x (1 + Safety Margin))/Number of Injectors = pounds/hour

((375 x .50) x (1 + .20))/8 = 28.13lb/hr

I'm using 375FWHP (300RWHP + 25%), a BSFC of .50 (.45-.50 for N/A, .65-.68 for F/I) and a safety margin of 20%. My calculations err on the side of being over-injected, which as Grady said, is way better than being under-injected.

Run the math yourself, see what you come up with.

Wes

I have a Q or two for you since you gave a reply

We have fwhp and rwhp to be concerned about ... correct

If the inj formula is based upon fwhp
and
Since rwhp is a lesser value than fwhp based upon a % of drive train loss

When talking about a 300rwhp combo suffers a 15% dt loss .........

We are talking about a fwhp value of 353 ... 353x.85=300.05
and
We are not accurate if we figure it like this
15% of 300rwhp is 45 and then add that to 300 for a working fwhp value of 345

Not too much difference ... I know ... but ... still ... it would be more if dealing
with a forced combo

Then there is the 80% duty cycle which is considered safe by most.

Then there is the fact that Ford runs fuel pressure at a lesser value (39lbs) than
what you see given in those formulas which ... IIRC ... is around 43.5lbs

I wanna say someone said at the lower pressure that Ford runs at, you are not
getting the full rating of the size of injector you have chosen

anyway ... stuff to think about

The formula I have seen used goes like this:

fwhp TIMES bfsc DIVIDED BY # of inj's used TIMES inj duty cycle

For a NA 300rwhp stick trans combo ...............

I would use 353fwhp X .85 (drive train loss) = 300.5

I would use a bsfc of .50

I would use a inj duty cycle of .80

the formula would then be ........
353x.50=176.5
then
8x.80=6.4
then
176.5/6.4=27.58 lb injector size

Very close to what you came up with Wes

Now as I said above .....
I used 350rwhp as a value for my peace of mind
and
an inj duty cycle of 80%
which worked out to a final inj value size of 32.19 lbs

If one was using an auto trans ... how much more loss would one
have to figure in the formula

I can't believe nobody but Wes has anything to say about this issue
considering I see this issue being asked about over and over here
and on other sites as well

Grady

qballenko · May 3, 2007

SOmething along these lines. I plan on getting to tf kit too. What lifters you guys recommend with the kit?

sage2k · May 4, 2007

FRPP lifters

final5-0 · May 4, 2007

5spd GT said:
My personal preference is 24's for a h/c/i setup unless you are revving 6500+.

30's if you can get a tune...24's if you can't.

You and I have talked about this before and since there are so many noobs
around here these days ..............

I wanna say there is a good reason 5spd GT made this statement and
I have posted the same kinds of things before as well.

Briefly ... Here are a few things behind that line of reasoning

First of all ... Like a lot of issues with modding our Stangs ...
You wanna start off by saying ... Well ... It depends upon

If you try to get by without a tune and use 30's, you stand a chance of
too much fuel during low pulse width conditions such as idle and cruise.

Then on the other hand, if you use 24's you could stand a chance of
not having enough fuel.

The fact you have no tune usually means you have an afpr. You can
run your combo at elevated fuel pressure levels to make the inj act
like it is larger in size.

Now ... some say this is not a good thing
but
Many have done this with success

Common sense tells one ... You can push things only so far with this
fudge method

You get involved with faulty spray patterns, extended duty cycles
and all that inj stuff ... which we won't deal with at this time

As in most things ... One needs to look at each method to see the
compromises and which is best for their needs

Summing up ... Like Mr. 5sp GT said ... It depends upon the tune

See There ... That was pretty brief ... for me anyways

Grady

Stanger007 · May 4, 2007

final5-0 said:
...page of stuff...

Grady

Good lord where were the two questions, lol!

I used 25% loss in my calculations, #1 to make it safe and #2 because I'm an auto guy and that is how we roll. I would bet with an aftermarket convertor your actual loss is less than 25% but that is a whole 'nother thread, eh?

You are correct on the rated line pressure and actual pressure for aftermarket injectors vs Ford. Ford injectors are rated at 39lb whereas aftermarket are rated at 2Bar - 43.5lb.

Wes

gcomfx.com · May 4, 2007

I didn't want to debate this out before making my purchase. So 42lbers sounded like enough to me. Besides, they are Incredible Hulk green.

m0l0 · May 4, 2007

Go for the 30s`s + Tweecer or Whatever chip + MAF

You cant go wrong with 30´s on a HCI, But take your time to think if that is your Goal, because otherwise you will be like me or many others : , i wish i bought 42´s because ~300 rwhp is not enough once you get used to it and if planning ad a power adder of any kind latter, you will have to buy injectors again

iLkYsPoNy · May 9, 2007

I just installed mine and I'm having idle issues. I changed out everything and wouldnt sustain idle. I was told it needed a tune by my Dyno shop ( www.crt-performance.com ) and the installer. Well, Jrichker didn't believe me, he told me it HAD to be something mechanical ( ie valves, vacuum. ) . Well I got to checking things, and we changed the MAF back to stock. Now it will idle and surge but it stays running. Long story short, take Stanger007's advice and use your stock MAF and you can drive it to the dyno. I'm in the same boat.... 15 miles to the dyno. Atleast it runs... pig rich and all!

drakesdad · May 9, 2007

iLkYsPoNy said:
I just installed mine and I'm having idle issues. I changed out everything and wouldnt sustain idle. I was told it needed a tune by my Dyno shop ( www.crt-performance.com ) and the installer. Well, Jrichker didn't believe me, he told me it HAD to be something mechanical ( ie valves, vacuum. ) . Well I got to checking things, and we changed the MAF back to stock. Now it will idle and surge but it stays running. Long story short, take Stanger007's advice and use your stock MAF and you can drive it to the dyno. I'm in the same boat.... 15 miles to the dyno. Atleast it runs... pig rich and all!

I had one hell uva time .......found out I had the wrong spark plugs......once I corrected that I had surging idle like crazy......If your "guy" can't get it to where you like it.......you need to follow me down to Columbus area... I made the trip and Don and Rob @ losota racing took care of all of that...I am scheduling a visit with Rob via email............

iLkYsPoNy · May 10, 2007

Have you ever been to CRT? I haven't, but I hear is a magical place .

I'm pretty sure they can get it to where I want it, though. I had the wrong plugs too, I had Autolites and apparently I'm supposed to use NGK. Who knew?

mackey · May 10, 2007

You need an oil fill kit for the trickflow valve covers. The kit does not supply you with one. You will notice you can't get oil in your engine easily without it!

gcomfx.com · May 10, 2007

mackey said:
You need an oil fill kit for the trickflow valve covers. The kit does not supply you with one. You will notice you can't get oil in your engine easily without it!

The kit comes with it. At least mine did.

gcomfx.com · May 10, 2007

drakesdad said:
I had one hell uva time .......found out I had the wrong spark plugs......once I corrected that I had surging idle like crazy......If your "guy" can't get it to where you like it.......you need to follow me down to Columbus area... I made the trip and Don and Rob @ losota racing took care of all of that...I am scheduling a visit with Rob via email............

As of last night, mine idles really damn good. Finally got the timing dead nuts on stock 10*. Took the computer about 5 minutes to straighten out, plus we adjusted the back stop on the T/B to keep it cracked open just a bit. She idles with a nice lope at 1,000 rpms. I can hold down on the brake and run it through the gears without pressing the gas pedal, it drops to about 850 rpms, I'm very pleased. The stage 2 cam sounds great. I haven't tried the A/C yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll still idle.

I'll be posting vids in my thread soon. I just have to fix the damn rear main that is leaking.

gcomfx.com · May 10, 2007

iLkYsPoNy said:
Have you ever been to CRT? I haven't, but I hear is a magical place .

I'm pretty sure they can get it to where I want it, though. I had the wrong plugs too, I had Autolites and apparently I'm supposed to use NGK. Who knew?

Actually you can run Autolites. That's what I have in mine. You just have to check the sheet that came with the heads for which product number of Autolites. I went a step colder and gapped them at .035 because of the nitrous.

iLkYsPoNy · May 10, 2007

mackey said:
You need an oil fill kit for the trickflow valve covers. The kit does not supply you with one. You will notice you can't get oil in your engine easily without it!

The kit comes with the oil filler kit yo ujust had to cut your own hole in the valve cover....

I'm jealous mine doesn't have a quality idle. My timing is advance a little i think though. It's still running pig rich with the MAF but I can drive it if need be. It def. still has a surge and if I shut it off/stalls it won't restart because it floods itself out. Anyhow, hurry with the video cause I went with the Stage 2 cam as well and I wanna hear yours so I can be more jealous over the next 5 days .

BTW.... did you have trouble with the pistion to valve clearance?

gcomfx.com · May 10, 2007

I didn't build the internal of the engine. I just dropped off the parts then put it in the car. I'll try to get a video up soon. I'm just about out of time to get the rear main fixed before our track rental. I knew I wouldn't be able to race it, but I sure wanted to at least drive it there.

iLkYsPoNy · May 10, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
I didn't build the internal of the engine. I just dropped off the parts then put it in the car. I'll try to get a video up soon. I'm just about out of time to get the rear main fixed before our track rental. I knew I wouldn't be able to race it, but I sure wanted to at least drive it there.

I meant with the Stage 2 cam with the stock internals and TH heads... TFS told me on some of em there is a piston to valve clearance issue. Mine wasn't one of em, I was wondering if yours was.

supporting mods for trick flow HCI kit

Stanger007

BlueSaph95GT

Member

Stanger007

final5-0

Mustang Master

qballenko

New Member

sage2k

Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

Stanger007

gcomfx.com

m0l0

Member

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

drakesdad

Member

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

mackey

Active Member

gcomfx.com

gcomfx.com

gcomfx.com

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

gcomfx.com

iLkYsPoNy

if she's a tranny then... well I'd do her.... it..

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supporting mods for trick flow HCI kit

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