Suspensioin 101 Questions

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

94GTLaserRC said:
Thanks Dan... I think I WOULD get the SFC's in Powder coat...What about Steeda's Chromoly tubular SFC? Only reason is I can Drive to Steeda and get them for $119, and not pay shipping.

Funtionally, they'll be the same so long as they have the seat cross brace. The one problem I have with round tube SFC's is the additional loss in ground clearance when compared to rectangular steel.

94GTLaserRC said:
I have no issue with the cost of the R-LCA, but those shocks/struts are a little pricey for me now. I guess according to what I want, the logical sequence based on what I already have is:

1. SFC's
2. LCA for the rear.

If so, that's enough for now to get me started...

Sounds logical to me.

94GTLaserRC said:
DO those LCA's come in red? Ive seen them on Ebay...but not that brand.

MM offers custom powder coating in whatever color you want. If I recall, it's about $50 extra.

94GTLaserRC said:
What would be the problemt with these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7916946284&category=33583

Polyurethane bushings in the UCA's is bad news.

94GTLaserRC · Aug 22, 2004

THis should be the DAN and RC post.

I appreciate your tolerance and hopefully can still "guide" me on this issue.

I have read some ads for "round tubular" SFC' where it says " no additional loss of ground clearance" I dont know if that's true or a promo.

Im heading to work now...Ill check back here around 6PM
Thanks
RC

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

94GTLaserRC said:
THis should be the DAN and RC post.

Oh I don't know about that. Just because I've been been post whoring doesn't mean that everyone else hasn't made some solid contibutions. My excuse is being out of town and having nothing to do except sit in the hotel room and watch TV while looking up options for my motor build up. Currently, an aluminum block 427 with a single turbo is getting more attention than my original plan of an aluminum block 331 twin turbo. Decisions decisions

94GTLaserRC said:
I appreciate your tolerance and hopefully can still "guide" me on this issue.

I wouldn't call it tolerance. I just like to hear myself talk.

94GTLaserRC said:
I have read some ads for "round tubular" SFC' where it says " no additional loss of ground clearance" I dont know if that's true or a promo.

I'd find that hard to believe when compared to rectangular steel that actually hugs the body pan. If you were to bend the round tube to hug the pan, you'd drastically reduce the torsional rigidity of the system. Of course, if you don't have a problem with ground clearance currently, it may be a non-issue. But I know I have ground clearance issues and I'm not even running SFC's (due to class rules).

Now that I've decided to say to hell with the rules, I'm going with a frame kit instead of SFC's just so ground clearance isn't an issue.

Rootus · Aug 22, 2004

baglock1 said:
Now that I've decided to say to hell with the rules, I'm going with a frame kit instead of SFC's just so ground clearance isn't an issue.

Frame kit?

Dave

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

HairyCanary said:
Frame kit?

Dave

A frame kit basically ties the two subframes together like SFC's do. But instead of just welding to the bottom of the subs, you cut out a channel in the body pan so that the steel slides inside the subframes and ties them together. They are much stronger than standard SFC's (reportedly increasing torsional rigidity by over 1500%) and you don't lose any ground clearance since they don't drop any lower than the existing subframes.

Here's a pretty decent write up and several pics so you can see what i mean.
http://members.webpathway.com/dougnsteph@webpathway.com/mustang/sfc-install.html

Rootus · Aug 22, 2004

WOW. That's all I can think of to say...

I think I'll stick with SFC's

Thanks for providing that link, I just learned something new. I had seen the in-car SFC cross connectors, but nothing quite so involved as the frame kit.

Dave

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

HairyCanary said:
WOW. That's all I can think of to say...

I think I'll stick with SFC's

Yeah, they're definately not an easy bolt on.

95BLKGT5.0 · Aug 22, 2004

Originally Posted by 94GTLaserRC
THis should be the DAN and RC post.

I'm just sitting back keeping my mouth shut because Dan has said it all.

Originally Posted by baglock1
RC,

In any event, here's where I would start with a suspension setup that was based on mild street performance.
MM full-length SFC's, bare steel -- $119
H&R Super Sport Springs -- $229
Bilstein struts and shocks -- ~$465

Next:
MM LCA's -- $250
MM CC plates (in chrome, just for you ) -- $250

Total so far $1313

This set up sounds great and the only things I would change is
MMRLCA-2 Adj. LCA's $379
MMCO-3 Front coilover Kit for Bilstein struts $319

So That would put you at $1313 plus $129 for the adj LCA's
and $319 for coilover kit =
Total $1761

With the changes you would be able to adj. your ride ht. for driving and lowering for looks at a car show.
With Front coil overs you will need rear springs to match the coilover spring rates. Price ??

You Don't need to do it all at once do subframes first.
Hard core racers Have there frames alligned and subframes welded in before they do any suspension mods.

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

The MM c/o kit with springs is $369 but since RC already has springs, you could subtract the $229 for the H&R supersports and use the existing rear springs with the weight jacker LCA's.

MM Powdercoated SFC's -- $149
MM Weight jacking R-LCA's -- $380
MM Chrome 4-bolt CC plates (a must for the coilovers) -- $250
Coilover kit with springs -- $369
Bilstein struts -- $280

New total -- $1428

Damn, this crap adds up in a hurry doesn't it?

Rootus · Aug 22, 2004

baglock1 said:
Damn, this crap adds up in a hurry doesn't it?

That's why you're not supposed to total it up

GTPhreak · Aug 22, 2004

thanks to the links for the bilsteins struts/shocks guys

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

HairyCanary said:
That's why you're not supposed to total it up

I'm sure not to do it in front of the wife.

swingline · Aug 22, 2004

I'm too hung-over to make sense of MM's website so I need your help:

What all do I need to do a front/back coil over swap? I see MM's kits but I'm not sure if they come with everything. What would you run with coil overs to lower the car or do the coil overs themselves lower it?

EDIT: Would I want something like this? http://www.maximummotorsports.com/mmcopkg.asp

Rootus · Aug 22, 2004

swingline said:
What would you run with coil overs to lower the car or do the coil overs themselves lower it?

Coilovers have an adjustable lower spring perch so that you can pick your ride height.

Personally I chose the MM front kit w/350# 10" springs ($349 shipped from Art's Performance) and Bilstein shocks/struts ($469). Rears I'm going to keep the stock style springs. If you don't already have the MM C/C plates, you'll need those too (about $200).

And because baglock1 has nothing to do but surf SN, he will shortly reply with a much more intelligent response .

Dave

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

Yep, that package has everything you need: shocks/struts, cc plates, coilover hardware, and springs. If you don't have the MM Panhard Bar, you need to get an additional bracket (it's like $25) for the rear lower coilover mount.

The only thing I would consider adding to it would be a spanner wrench to make ride height changes easier, but I've never needed one for mine. I adjust them by hand.

As far as ride height is concerned, the coilovers allow the ride height to be adjusted to whatever you want.

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

HairyCanary said:
And because baglock1 has nothing to do but surf SN, he will shortly reply with a much more intelligent response .

Screw you Dave. I'm taking my ball and going home.

After today, I feel like the nerd in class who keeps raising his hand when the teacher asks a question.

"Who discovered electricity?"
"Oooh! Oooh! I know, I know! Pick Meeee!"

FWIW, when I saw that you beat me to the punch, I almost deleted my post. I wouldn't say my response was any more intelligent than yours.

swingline · Aug 22, 2004

HairyCanary said:
And because baglock1 has nothing to do but surf SN, he will shortly reply with a much more intelligent response .
Dave

Too true! I have been thinking about coil overs for some time now. What else would I need to complete my suspension? I already have MM's full-length subframes and upper/lower control arms from JD's sitting on my floor. Would I need to get a bushing kit like the one from Energy Suspension?

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

swingline said:
Would I need to get a bushing kit like the one from Energy Suspension?

I wouldn't. Personally, I think there are better routes to go than just replacing all the bushings with poly.

In the rear, I'd use a 3-piece poly/spherical bushing setup on the LCA's and regular rubber in the UCA's. The rubber in the FRPP HD UCA's is the hardest I'd use, which is roughly twice the durometer (hardness) rating of the stock bushings. If you're building a drag performance only car, then poly in the UCA has it's advantages. But the gains aren't worth the trade-offs in handling for a street driven car (IMO).

In the front, I'd get some solid rack bushings (center drilled, not offset) and CC plates. That's about it. Once the front control arm bushings or balljoints start to go bad, I'd replace the entire control arm with the updated units from FRPP.

Of course, these recomendations are for someone who doesn't want to spend a pile of money on the whole enchilada and would like to maintain a ride reasonably free of NVH.

swingline · Aug 22, 2004

So between the MM kit, sub frames, and upper/lower control arms I should be set right? Where can I find the bushing for the control arms you suggested? Ford?

baglock1 · Aug 22, 2004

While I'm sure you can just get the bushings by themselves, I'd get the whole new arm. Details were just discussed the other day here:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=494840

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