Suspension + Brakes = road noise?

DucatiRdr · Sep 17, 2010

I just finished my 5 lug conversion (THANKS to Mike and everyone else for chiming in on my previous thread!!) and here's what I had installed:

PBR loaded calipers
13" rotors
SN95 spindles and hubs from junkyard
MM braided front lines
Russell rear braided line
2003 Bullitt wheels
Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500s in 245/45R17
MM extreme duty rear lower control arms
New axle bushings
FRPP upper rear control arms
FRPP 5 lug rear axle kit with drums

The alignment was done to Maximum Motorsport's recommended specs.

I was giddy to see the car done. I didn't do the work (no time) so I had a client clank everything together. As soon as the car started rolling there was a noticeable loud rumble from what sounded like the bell housing area or maybe in the engine bay (no it wasn't the motor). The noise definitely increased with speed. My first thought was that the bearings in the hubs were bad but there was no squealing from the wheels and with the windows down I couldn't hear any noise echoing as I drove past buildings. Second thought was that maybe the brake rotors and pads were in contact but the car stops fine with no brake smell when I come to a stop. Third idea was road noise transmitted into the car from the MM extreme duty rear lower control arms. Characteristic of the solid bushings, maybe? The tech at MM said these shouldn't be too much noisier than stock though, and the sound seems to be coming from the front...

Any ideas? The noise in the cabin is going to drive me nuts. It wasn't there before the tweaks but it's certainly something I have to deal with now. It's loud enough to take the fun out of driving it.

Thanks in advance!

MFE92 · Sep 17, 2010

I suspect it's a bad hub, or a bad axle bearing that you never heard before because of the softer bushings in the LCA's. Neither of them squeak when they go bad, they rumble or roar at speed. If it does it worse when you steer in one direction and less in the other, it's definitely a hub or axle bearing. Listen to the sound my car made in right hand turns like at about :50 here. That's a bad drivers side axle bearing and a spalled axle. 5.0 mustang behind a Saleen S351 at Heartland Park - Car Videos on StreetFire

If you can wiggle either of the front wheels back and forth when they're off the ground, and it's not play in the tie rod end, then the bearing is loose and failing. If you can move a rear wheel up and down in the axle housing when it's in the air, then you have a bad axle bearing.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 17, 2010

Road noise WILL increase with solid bushing, i said this in your other thread.
Try this, take the car up to about 40mph and shut it down, steer it back and forth and tell us what you hear. Should help solve the issue.

DucatiRdr · Sep 18, 2010

Thanks for the replies!

I was ready for an increase in road noise but the volume here is beyond my expectations, especially after speaking to the tech at MM who said you could hardly notice it with Flowmasters (soon to be exchanged for Magnaflows). Still, it seems to be coming out of the shifter, if that makes any sense at all.

The SN95 spindles and hubs were both from the junkyard so I have zero knowledge of their history prior to being bolted onto my car. My '88 only has 19,000 miles so I suspect the rear bearings are fine.

I'll jack the front of the car then do Shaolin's test and see if that helps any.

If it does end up being the hubs (that's what I suspect), which brand is preferred: Timken, National or SKF (listed from least expensive at $43 to most at $65)?

Shaolin Crane · Sep 18, 2010

I used the timken bearings when i installed my spindles, didnt even *** around, i wanted them replaced right off the bat. But if its coming from the shifter area could very well be something in the tranny. ****ed up synchro etc

Mustang5L5 · Sep 18, 2010

Make sure you don't turn the key back too far and lock they wheel when your shut down, kill the engine and turn key to ok and be ready to start it, then test.

You could also put the rear on jack stands and run up through the gears. I wouldn't rev too high, but it might give you an idea of where the noise is coming from.

If you push the clutch in andmshift to neutral is it stil there?

Might be the hubs....Timkin and skf are good bearing brands.

DucatiRdr · Sep 18, 2010

I lifted each of the front wheels and gave it a wiggle with my hands at 12 and 6. The driver's side just had a tiny bit of movement but the passenger side had a definite amount of play. I haven't tried the 40 MPH swerve but I'm going to replace both hubs and call it a day.

I have the Autozone repair pages and they reference two things I have questions on:

1) Push on nuts when I replace the brake rotor, and
2) the torque setting for the hub nut.

Does anyone have info on these things?

DucatiRdr · Sep 18, 2010

Hub retaining nut size = 36mm and requires 258 ft/lbs.

About those push on nuts...

MFE92 · Sep 18, 2010

You don't need the push on nuts, those are only for the factory and to make it a pain in the ass to remove the rotor for the first time.

DucatiRdr · Sep 18, 2010

Great about the push on nuts. Now to find a suitable torque wrench. I should just buy one since the wheel nut on my single sided swingarm Ducati requires 220 Nm. I guess at least it won't be a single use tool. Does anyone besides Snap-on carry these? Craftsman?

Mustang5L5 · Sep 18, 2010

I have the craftsman torque wrench and it's max setting is 250 ft-lbs so I don't think it will be ideal.

No need for the push on nuts. I fought 20 mins with them on my 03gt the first time I did a brake job. They just keep the rotors from falling off on the assembly line at ford.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 18, 2010

Mustang5L5 said:
I have the craftsman torque wrench and it's max setting is 250 ft-lbs so I don't think it will be ideal.

No need for the push on nuts. I fought 20 mins with them on my 03gt the first time I did a brake job. They just keep the rotors from falling off on the assembly line at ford.

I have 10, yes 10 different torque wrenches from craftsman, ranging from 5lbtq to 1000lbtq, they make quite a few, or use to...

Mustang5L5 · Sep 18, 2010

Damn, I thought they made two....cuz that's what I see in the store. I have those both

MFE92 · Sep 18, 2010

DucatiRdr said:
Great about the push on nuts. Now to find a suitable torque wrench. I should just buy one since the wheel nut on my single sided swingarm Ducati requires 220 Nm. I guess at least it won't be a single use tool. Does anyone besides Snap-on carry these? Craftsman?

I take it as high as I can with my craftsman torque wrench, then I use a finely calibrated piece of galvanized pipe over the handle of my 1/2-inch drive craftsman socket driver to reef it tighter. You don't want to under-tighten it, and I'm not sure it's easily possible to overtighten it.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 18, 2010

Mustang5L5 said:
Damn, I thought they made two....cuz that's what I see in the store. I have those both

i just looked and they dont make mine anymore, mine are all marked professional

DucatiRdr · Sep 19, 2010

So I guess that means a call to a couple of clients is in order (I work with a few Snap-On dealers). SO is so damn expensive though...

DucatiRdr · Sep 19, 2010

There are plenty of 250 ft/lb wrenches but the nut calls for 258... Autozone doesn't have a wrench of that capacity in their rental rack. What does everyone do?

MFE92 · Sep 19, 2010

DucatiRdr said:
There are plenty of 250 ft/lb wrenches but the nut calls for 258... Autozone doesn't have a wrench of that capacity in their rental rack. What does everyone do?

?

MFE92 said:
I take it as high as I can with my craftsman torque wrench, then I use a finely calibrated piece of galvanized pipe over the handle of my 1/2-inch drive craftsman socket driver to reef it tighter. You don't want to under-tighten it, and I'm not sure it's easily possible to overtighten it.

Mustang5L5 · Sep 19, 2010

Set it for 250. Hit that number and then get a socket and pipe and go a little bit more.

DucatiRdr · Sep 19, 2010

Thanks and thanks. I'm coming from a long stint wrenching on motorcycles where it seems exacting torque specs are held in higher regard than on cars for some reason. I'll give the pipe and pray method a shot.

Suspension + Brakes = road noise?

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