suspension needs for dropping GT 2011 1.5 inches

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Hello.

We'll be picking up at 2011 GT soon.

What will I need to do to other parts of the suspension if we lower it 1.5 inches?

Also, what will the immediate suspension needs be in order to track it pretty hard. Is it good to go from the outset? I'd like to make it tight like our bimmer. Thanks for information and I'm looking forward to driving our first American car!

Cheers.
 
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brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Lower control arms with relocation brackets will be ideal, some say upper control arm a good idea (I'm one of them) but not required I haven't had any issues with 1.5" drop for over 3 years but eventually I will install one too.
Would this be lower control arms with relocation brackets for both front and back?

Do you think there would be a kit out there with the lowering springs and the control arms?

I know on our bimmer that I have to change out the struts when I put in shorter and mor .lb springs, I'm assuming this must be the case with a Mustang as well, no? I mean, I can't just lower it with the existing dampers on it, right?
 

SpartaPerformance

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It is recommended to change the struts when lowering the vehicle and it is easier to do this with a kit with atleast struts and springs, sway bars can be added later. I have the FRPP FR3 handling pack but they don't make it anymore, it's replacement is only 1" drop. As for control arms PM me.
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Having the mustang background, you might be able to answer this generally. How much work do you think I'd need to put into a 2011 GT in order to get it to handle close to (not exactly) a 3 series BMW with TCKline suspension and sways? I'll be taking both to the track and I've heard for many years how bad the suspension is in a Mustang, but it sounds a whole lot better the last couple years. Will this thing be trackable from the get-go with the Brembo brake solution? or should I wait and do aftermarket on those as well? On the videos of the GT 2011 I saw the nose dive embarrasingly steep.. I need to dial that out quick.
 

Kurt_OH

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There's almost certainly one or more forum sponsors/advertisers here who can comment on this. I suggest you contact them and ask these questions.

You're setting a VERY high standard; a track-oriented set of suspension mods on a 3 series is a stout handling car if done right.

I don't KNOW, but would guess that you'll need to replace the stock street brake PADS with something that can take more heat. When you do, you may warp the stock rotors and possibly burn up the seals/shatter pistons in your front calipers due to the outside-design-limits heat. Brakes are an easy component to overwhelm on the track, even on a well designed, sports-oriented street car.

Before you worry about getting less dive/flatter cornering and all that, you may want to just be able to do 10 laps with the car intact (no fried brakes/clutch, fluids not boiling/pouring out, etc.)
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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This isn't sounding good for the GT. I thought its new incarnation was track worthy (lapping) from the get go.

Of course I'd be using DOT4 fluids and HT-10 pads for the track, but are you saying the calipers run a chance of burning up???? Warping the rotors? Surely this could only happen if you sit on your rotors after hot laps.. could they really be putting that cheap of rotors on a Mustang GT? My OEM blanks I buy for $50 each for my 328 can put up with track heat (1000 degrees) no problem.. nothing special about them.. in fact they glow. Haven't they designed around that by this point?

Is the 2011 GT only meant for going fast on the street? The reviews say it will be okay on the track; that's why we want to get it (daily driving as well). Am I reading it all wrong? The reviews say it's up there with an M3... maybe that's just editor hype?

Regards.
 

Kurt_OH

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Brycerichert:

You shouldn't base your decision on what I said re: Mustang. I believe it applies to just about ANY car short of an "M", an "AMG" or a Porsche or other dedicated sports car in that price range or higher.

I'd expect the same iffy brakes from a 135i/335i, Camaro SS (probably worse due to more weight), Challenger, IS350, 370Z or any of the sporty street cars you might find in this price range.

In fact, with a very decent weight/swept braking area for the Mustang GT, I'd expect it to do BETTER than most.
 

SpartaPerformance

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Having the mustang background, you might be able to answer this generally. How much work do you think I'd need to put into a 2011 GT in order to get it to handle close to (not exactly) a 3 series BMW with TCKline suspension and sways? I'll be taking both to the track and I've heard for many years how bad the suspension is in a Mustang, but it sounds a whole lot better the last couple years. Will this thing be trackable from the get-go with the Brembo brake solution? or should I wait and do aftermarket on those as well? On the videos of the GT 2011 I saw the nose dive embarrasingly steep.. I need to dial that out quick.
The Brembo kit would be a good idea, many people here don't think it's worth it due to cost, but when you consider the cost buying separate and having it installed it's minor difference. As for suspension kits (I know I'm going to get yelled at for this) They're all pretty much the same when you compare street kits. For it to handle like an M3 is not unreasonable goal however the ride will be harsh on the streets. The BMW suspension is waaaaaay more sophisticated then in a Mustang, you can get the handling but you will sacrifice much of the ride no matter how much Ford polishes it up it's still a basic rear suspension design from the 19th century.
Here's what you should do. If you can afford the Brembo option get it! A must option is the 3.73 rear gear, that option comes with a special tune for the traction/roll stability control system, this will aid greatly in the corners department especially when you add the suspension mods.
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Brycerichert:

You shouldn't base your decision on what I said re: Mustang. I believe it applies to just about ANY car short of an "M", an "AMG" or a Porsche or other dedicated sports car in that price range or higher.

I'd expect the same iffy brakes from a 135i/335i, Camaro SS (probably worse due to more weight), Challenger, IS350, 370Z or any of the sporty street cars you might find in this price range.

In fact, with a very decent weight/swept braking area for the Mustang GT, I'd expect it to do BETTER than most.
A basic 328i, at least the e46, can go stock around and around on the track wtihout warping rotors, etc... it would just lose brakes.. get to hot, maybe boil the fluid... so as far as iffy, not being able to go 10/10th deep into every braking zone, I'd agree, no car, stock will do this without modifications. I hope though that a Mustang GT 2011 would be able to go to track days with 20-30 minute sessions without worrying about something breaking. I don't have enough history with Mustangs to know how they hold up (zero actually), but they look so much better now, and on paper, they look really good so I really want to give one a try.
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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The Brembo kit would be a good idea, many people here don't think it's worth it due to cost, but when you consider the cost buying separate and having it installed it's minor difference. As for suspension kits (I know I'm going to get yelled at for this) They're all pretty much the same when you compare street kits. For it to handle like an M3 is not unreasonable goal however the ride will be harsh on the streets. The BMW suspension is waaaaaay more sophisticated then in a Mustang, you can get the handling but you will sacrifice much of the ride no matter how much Ford polishes it up it's still a basic rear suspension design from the 19th century.
Here's what you should do. If you can afford the Brembo option get it! A must option is the 3.73 rear gear, that option comes with a special tune for the traction/roll stability control system, this will aid greatly in the corners department especially when you add the suspension mods.
I figure it you are going to put a kit on the car afterward, there are two positions... 1) if you are going to pull the stock brakes out anyways, why put the Brembos in there to replace with a BBK, or 2) gamble... go with the Brembo brakes to see if they are up to par.

I read in a couple places that the Brembos they are putting on aren't track level... more really a small kit that are bright red for marketing purposes. I'm not sure if that's true or not. The problem is I cannot test a car wtih the Brembos in them at the level I'd want to know... not would they let me.

The Brembos and 3.73 are a no brainer... I'm just curious how it will do out of the corners. It's hard plunking down 40 grand and guessing, but there aren't enough real drive tests on the car yet to know.

What is the deal with the glass top? Does the thing open or not? Is it lighter than having the standard roof? Heavier? Is there any sunroof option that actually opens? I mean, we'll want to drive this thing as a daily driver as well so some creature comforts are important. Its purpose is to have fun at the track.. something with a different personality than a BMW, not something that we'll be looking to shave 10th's off of like we do with the other cars.

I'm glad there is some action on this board... some of the other ones have once a week type entries!
 

Kurt_OH

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I wouldn't let fear of braking issue stop me.

First of all, for actual racing duty, you're replacing them anyway with two piece rotors, race pads and real brake fluid.

Second, I expect the Brembos to hold up at least as well as most others anywhere near this class of car. SURE, an M3 might have better brakes, and will clearly be WAY, WAY, WAY faster on an actual road course (despite the stupid one-off comment about their ragged out M3 on bald tires vs GT test mule in some rag), but it'll cost nearly DOUBLE - it SHOULD be. You can buy a lot of brake/suspension/engine parts for an extra $30k. But even there, go read some articles about M3 vs 911 - one of the first comments is usually how after a few hot laps, the M3 brakes were cooking while the 911 was fine. No slam on BMW - I LOVE them and own a 335i right now.

Just saying that if you're looking to buy a new $30k's car and track it, the new GT may be the pinnacle of that group. I don't think there's any new car for that price, that'll run with it on a road course and likely very few if any that could out-drag-race it either.
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Good info.

Do you go back and forth between a Mustang and the bimmer? I tell my wife I just want two different attitudes in cars and that the refinement actually gets boring after awhile. I want something rough, but that can still produce if you are a good driver.
 

SpartaPerformance

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Good info.

Do you go back and forth between a Mustang and the bimmer? I tell my wife I just want two different attitudes in cars and that the refinement actually gets boring after awhile. I want something rough, but that can still produce if you are a good driver.
That is exactly what a Mustang is about.... refinement gets too mundane most times. The Mustang is about seat of your pants raw power, total different experience, totally different ways of having "fun" with your car. If you're considering the Mustang as a budget version of a Bimmer then that's not the reason for a Mustang. Sure you can carve some nice tight turns in a Bimmer but the Mustang makes your soul scream "WAHOOOOOO" when you floor it.
 

brycerichert

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That's how I'm selling it to my wife.. but it's up to $40,000 now and she asks, why not just get another BMW and get rid of the Subaru? I tell her I want something that is not so perfect at the track.. nothing I can die in, but needs more input and attention. I'm thinking the Mustang will fit that bill. And.. I've never felt a V8 rumble before.... Before they were just plain unsafe at the track, but it seems they've put a lot more $ into the suspension and handling to overcome the dated rearend?
 

Kurt_OH

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May 16, 2010
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Good info.

Do you go back and forth between a Mustang and the bimmer? I tell my wife I just want two different attitudes in cars and that the refinement actually gets boring after awhile. I want something rough, but that can still produce if you are a good driver.
Oh, no. Two reasons:

1. Don't have a Mustang
2. Bought Bimmer for wife; I try to stay out of it (at least until it gets a door ding or scuffed bumper or SHE has a fender-bender in it!).

I have a TOTAL POS that I bought for my daughter (who was in college at the time). Figured I'd give it to her mid-sophomore year and buy myself something nice. She didn't get that far in college, so I wasn't "rewarding" dropping out with a nearly-new car. So I kept it, and my wife jumped on the slot and now SHE has the nice car. We stagger our car purchases; my "turn" begins this fall. We'll see . . . Mustang GT is near the top of my "short list"!
 

brycerichert

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May 16, 2010
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Oh, no. Two reasons:

1. Don't have a Mustang
2. Bought Bimmer for wife; I try to stay out of it (at least until it gets a door ding or scuffed bumper or SHE has a fender-bender in it!).

I have a TOTAL POS that I bought for my daughter (who was in college at the time). Figured I'd give it to her mid-sophomore year and buy myself something nice. She didn't get that far in college, so I wasn't "rewarding" dropping out with a nearly-new car. So I kept it, and my wife jumped on the slot and now SHE has the nice car. We stagger our car purchases; my "turn" begins this fall. We'll see . . . Mustang GT is near the top of my "short list"!
Well I hope you go the GT route.. the more people with them, the more support we can provide each other on these forums. The first few years won't be a problem with the warranty, but I'm sure there is a lot of stuff they don't cover.
 

Kurt_OH

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Love to have a 2011/2012 GT500. Just not sure I want to part with that much money. EASILY "worth it" in terms of the amount of CAR for that money. What else is even close? Base 'vette or Grand Sport would probably run with/close to it but is nowhere near as cool/exclusive. That's it for American cars.

M3 would probably outrun it on a tight road course, but get killed in a straight line, and it's $10k more. Cayman would outrun it on a tight road course, otherwise nope. Same with base 911. C2S would probably nip it but now we're approaching $100k for cars still not even close in a straight line.

I can't believe the 2011 GT500 weighs less than a Camaro SS. Wow - great job by Ford.
 

speedform

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Mar 18, 2010
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If the new Mustangs running @ the front of the pack in the Continental Tire Race Series are any indication, I think the Mustang will do just fine on track. Couple things I'd do to mine (and plan to do for heavy track use). Order the CS front splitter WITHOUT the foglamp kit and add brake cooling ducts to the exposed holes. Change out the pads, fluid and lines. I'd start there. BTW, Brembo makes the rotors in the kit, not Ford and unless you leave your ebrake on after hot lapping the rotors shouldn't warp.
 
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