swap
- Thread starter AFRinc
- Start date
FivePointStang
Founding Member
Do you have a Lightning Donor? Even still, you might have a hard time getting down to the nitty gritty getting everything to work right with the wiring. Not saying it cant be done... just like any other engine swap A LOT of tiny things here and there that will get you frusterated.
I know also, you would want to change the rear end to 8.8. The v6s have 7.5
Maybe someone can chime in with a write up where someone has done this.
I know also, you would want to change the rear end to 8.8. The v6s have 7.5
Maybe someone can chime in with a write up where someone has done this.
billfisher
Active Member
like he said...nitty gritty stuff. forget 2v. even lightning 2v.
3v or 4v only. if you go blown with 3v,4v then it's worth it. it's a hrd thing to get in and looking good. you wwill think 5.4 2v is fast until you run it at the track.
3v or 4v only. if you go blown with 3v,4v then it's worth it. it's a hrd thing to get in and looking good. you wwill think 5.4 2v is fast until you run it at the track.
the short answer is no problem, the long answer is no problem BUT.
you are not going to want to look for a lightning doner. what you want is a navigator block, either the standard 4V block or the newer NVH block, the NVH is a bit larger on the casting but stronger in the connection points of the block its self... the one drawback is aded weight. the 5.4 block is around 30 lbs more then the GT block, the NVH stacks another 15. it may seem slight, but it adds up... go on top of that with the 4v heads being around 2x the wight over the SOHC GT heads and you start adding up weight fast. this is not a massive issue if you are just wanting power, however going from a v6 to a 5.4 its a massive amount pushed to the front of the car that will greatly change the handeling aspects of the mustang.
I WAS going to go this route, but when it came down to it i'd be spending around 10k, and thats going to take a load of time to build up piece by piece. when its all said and done the 5.4 can make up to ~500 to the wheels if done properly, and its all on pump gas and very streetable (as said by boss330 racing). its NOT hard to build, even for a weekend mechanic, and there are a lot of good companies that can ease the process by building you an entire long block that will just drop in... but this does get pricey. like i said, if you want the power you WILL be spending at least 8k, period. this does have an adendum though....
you CAN build a 5.4 for less, however you will be losing power, and a LOT of it. if you just want the v8, you can simply get your hands on a navigator longblock and use that as the powerplant... its gone some pep to it, but nothing amazing, about the same as a cobra give or take a little, and we are talking 99-01 cobras, not the terminators. if going with the long block from a navi, all you would need is 3 things, a computer, either cobra or mach1 will be fine (this is not needed if you have a GT, but the 6 is a different matter), the cobra wire harness (99 or 01 cobra will be fine, as well as the mach1 harness), and finally an intake.
the latter needed item is the hardest to do, the issue is that ALL 5.4s are in trucks, and trucks have more height clearance for the intake... and in having that luxury they have massivly tall octopuss like intakes that are made for low end torque. this will NOT fit under the stock hood, will NOT fit under a cobra R and will NOT fit under a 4" cowl. you have 2-3 options you can take to remedy this issue... 4 if you have contacts in austrailia. 1 - you can use the sullivan intake, which is hear is pretty solid, but it is not approved for any of the drag brackets, it is sheetmetal. if this is NOT going to be a race car, then the point is moot. the sullivan is a solid piece and FAIRLY cheap compared to the other options. 2 - get your hands on the cobra R intake. this can be done, but difficult. they ARE floating around out there, but hard to find, and typically pricey. 3 - have one made. this can follow 3 different flavors in its self. you can either have someone make one from sheetmetal for you (again the drag rules issue) which can be done for cheap, you can take a stock cobra intake and use adapter spacers (not recomeneded but it works) or buy a widened intake from sean hyland motorsport (they hack a cobra intake in half, add 1 inch of metal and call it a day. this is not optimal either, later explained), or you can have one custom cast. this will be around 3k and up.
one major issue with the intake is that the stock cobra intake is small even for the cobra... the runners are thin, and the overall body is not large enought to fed the 4v motor well. now, take the cobra and add another 50 cubes to it... and now you have even less airflow for the motor... it CAN get the job done, just not well.. again, loss in power.
the final way is to get your hands on the boss290 intake from the aussie superpersuit from the FPV buildhouse. i lost interest in the project after seeing the massive amount of cash it will take to get me there, so i dont know the price or ability to even obtain one.
now, do recognise that if you piece it together from just the block you will be able to frankenstein the whole motor for less money, but that is assuming you run into great deals for heads, cams, oil pan/pickup, rotating assembly, etc. and dont forget primary cover, timnig chains, and all your pullies. again, its not a HARD project, but it will take time to get it together.. once you have the motor getting it in is cake... assuming you solved the intake issue.
OH, speaking of issues, you have the issue of getting exhaust for it. think, the 5.4 is taller then the 4.6, meaning at the very LEAST you will need custome piping made for a midpipe to reach the exhaust manifolds. mac and BBK longtubes dont work at all for this method, but i have heard RUMORS that kooks and bassani work with this project.
there really is nothing else to it honestly. and though i have written a book on this issue i will not claim i am 100% accurate as i gave up on this in the research stage. for less money you can do a mach1 or cobra engine and make ABOUT the same power with less fitment/custom issuies. you can defintaly get more power with the 5.4 no arguement there, but it will COST.
finally, you have a v6. this runs into 3 SEPERATE issues that you have to address. the tranny for the v6 is weak, both auto and manual (i dont believe the stick is the same as the gt) and at the very least you will need another bell housing for the larger flywheel needed (though there is a company i read about that does an 8" flywheel and clutch).
next is the k member, you HAVE to get a tubular K member to get this thing in the car, clearance is just a must, that requires you replace that requires new control arms, and coilovers (dont forget the caster camber plates). get one for either a GT or cobra, both work fine.
finally is your rear end. it can survive if you are not using sticky tires and pushing the motor hard.. but whats the point if you are going with a 5.4... its time to get an 8.8. a stick axle or IRS will be fine. if you plan to drag the car, stick is the only option.
just a few things that came to mind while i was writing this... radiator, battery, ALL the accessories on the motor (ac, alternator, starter, water pump, etc) will have the be used from the navi, or purchased if you start with just the block. radiator and batery can be done from either the cobra or the GT.
again... this gets COSTLY very very fast. if you dont have a sack of cash i'd deep six the idea... but if you have the money, or a lot of time to make it a project car, then its irellevant.
i weighed the money to performance options and said screw it.. i'm going with an MMR shortblock and a kenne bell, then going to fab up my own heat exchanger and cooling system for the intercooler to fight heat soak. with this i can save around 4k in cost and make more power, or LESS power, depending on my mood and usage at the time. pulley changes are a wonder. the 5.4 idea is awesome for origionality, but because it is so rare you have to invent a lot of time and money. its simplistic process honestly, but just a lot of things to bookmark for later use.
hope i have helped. if you have further questions please post away.
Torinalth
you are not going to want to look for a lightning doner. what you want is a navigator block, either the standard 4V block or the newer NVH block, the NVH is a bit larger on the casting but stronger in the connection points of the block its self... the one drawback is aded weight. the 5.4 block is around 30 lbs more then the GT block, the NVH stacks another 15. it may seem slight, but it adds up... go on top of that with the 4v heads being around 2x the wight over the SOHC GT heads and you start adding up weight fast. this is not a massive issue if you are just wanting power, however going from a v6 to a 5.4 its a massive amount pushed to the front of the car that will greatly change the handeling aspects of the mustang.
I WAS going to go this route, but when it came down to it i'd be spending around 10k, and thats going to take a load of time to build up piece by piece. when its all said and done the 5.4 can make up to ~500 to the wheels if done properly, and its all on pump gas and very streetable (as said by boss330 racing). its NOT hard to build, even for a weekend mechanic, and there are a lot of good companies that can ease the process by building you an entire long block that will just drop in... but this does get pricey. like i said, if you want the power you WILL be spending at least 8k, period. this does have an adendum though....
you CAN build a 5.4 for less, however you will be losing power, and a LOT of it. if you just want the v8, you can simply get your hands on a navigator longblock and use that as the powerplant... its gone some pep to it, but nothing amazing, about the same as a cobra give or take a little, and we are talking 99-01 cobras, not the terminators. if going with the long block from a navi, all you would need is 3 things, a computer, either cobra or mach1 will be fine (this is not needed if you have a GT, but the 6 is a different matter), the cobra wire harness (99 or 01 cobra will be fine, as well as the mach1 harness), and finally an intake.
the latter needed item is the hardest to do, the issue is that ALL 5.4s are in trucks, and trucks have more height clearance for the intake... and in having that luxury they have massivly tall octopuss like intakes that are made for low end torque. this will NOT fit under the stock hood, will NOT fit under a cobra R and will NOT fit under a 4" cowl. you have 2-3 options you can take to remedy this issue... 4 if you have contacts in austrailia. 1 - you can use the sullivan intake, which is hear is pretty solid, but it is not approved for any of the drag brackets, it is sheetmetal. if this is NOT going to be a race car, then the point is moot. the sullivan is a solid piece and FAIRLY cheap compared to the other options. 2 - get your hands on the cobra R intake. this can be done, but difficult. they ARE floating around out there, but hard to find, and typically pricey. 3 - have one made. this can follow 3 different flavors in its self. you can either have someone make one from sheetmetal for you (again the drag rules issue) which can be done for cheap, you can take a stock cobra intake and use adapter spacers (not recomeneded but it works) or buy a widened intake from sean hyland motorsport (they hack a cobra intake in half, add 1 inch of metal and call it a day. this is not optimal either, later explained), or you can have one custom cast. this will be around 3k and up.
one major issue with the intake is that the stock cobra intake is small even for the cobra... the runners are thin, and the overall body is not large enought to fed the 4v motor well. now, take the cobra and add another 50 cubes to it... and now you have even less airflow for the motor... it CAN get the job done, just not well.. again, loss in power.
the final way is to get your hands on the boss290 intake from the aussie superpersuit from the FPV buildhouse. i lost interest in the project after seeing the massive amount of cash it will take to get me there, so i dont know the price or ability to even obtain one.
now, do recognise that if you piece it together from just the block you will be able to frankenstein the whole motor for less money, but that is assuming you run into great deals for heads, cams, oil pan/pickup, rotating assembly, etc. and dont forget primary cover, timnig chains, and all your pullies. again, its not a HARD project, but it will take time to get it together.. once you have the motor getting it in is cake... assuming you solved the intake issue.
OH, speaking of issues, you have the issue of getting exhaust for it. think, the 5.4 is taller then the 4.6, meaning at the very LEAST you will need custome piping made for a midpipe to reach the exhaust manifolds. mac and BBK longtubes dont work at all for this method, but i have heard RUMORS that kooks and bassani work with this project.
there really is nothing else to it honestly. and though i have written a book on this issue i will not claim i am 100% accurate as i gave up on this in the research stage. for less money you can do a mach1 or cobra engine and make ABOUT the same power with less fitment/custom issuies. you can defintaly get more power with the 5.4 no arguement there, but it will COST.
finally, you have a v6. this runs into 3 SEPERATE issues that you have to address. the tranny for the v6 is weak, both auto and manual (i dont believe the stick is the same as the gt) and at the very least you will need another bell housing for the larger flywheel needed (though there is a company i read about that does an 8" flywheel and clutch).
next is the k member, you HAVE to get a tubular K member to get this thing in the car, clearance is just a must, that requires you replace that requires new control arms, and coilovers (dont forget the caster camber plates). get one for either a GT or cobra, both work fine.
finally is your rear end. it can survive if you are not using sticky tires and pushing the motor hard.. but whats the point if you are going with a 5.4... its time to get an 8.8. a stick axle or IRS will be fine. if you plan to drag the car, stick is the only option.
just a few things that came to mind while i was writing this... radiator, battery, ALL the accessories on the motor (ac, alternator, starter, water pump, etc) will have the be used from the navi, or purchased if you start with just the block. radiator and batery can be done from either the cobra or the GT.
again... this gets COSTLY very very fast. if you dont have a sack of cash i'd deep six the idea... but if you have the money, or a lot of time to make it a project car, then its irellevant.
i weighed the money to performance options and said screw it.. i'm going with an MMR shortblock and a kenne bell, then going to fab up my own heat exchanger and cooling system for the intercooler to fight heat soak. with this i can save around 4k in cost and make more power, or LESS power, depending on my mood and usage at the time. pulley changes are a wonder. the 5.4 idea is awesome for origionality, but because it is so rare you have to invent a lot of time and money. its simplistic process honestly, but just a lot of things to bookmark for later use.
hope i have helped. if you have further questions please post away.
Torinalth
billfisher
Active Member
sounds about right. it is a daunting path unless you can fab everthing you'll need. i really thought it would be a common swap if i demonstrated it's feasability. all i really manages to do is to confirm how difficult it is for the average wrench. you have to make brackets,hoses,wiring,intake,exhaust,fuel rails,etc. and then get it tuned to make power.
a navi stock makes no more HP than an average PI motor. forget the advertised rating on 5.4's. i'm here to tell you they are weak and useless in stock form. ford lies.
when i add cams, ported heads, better intake, 105mm maf, 85mm throttle body, 42lb injectors, long tube stepped headers, 3" short SS exhaust with super trapps, etc. i will pass easily 10,000 just on the motor.
a navi stock makes no more HP than an average PI motor. forget the advertised rating on 5.4's. i'm here to tell you they are weak and useless in stock form. ford lies.
when i add cams, ported heads, better intake, 105mm maf, 85mm throttle body, 42lb injectors, long tube stepped headers, 3" short SS exhaust with super trapps, etc. i will pass easily 10,000 just on the motor.
billfisher
Active Member
CanadaStang
New Member
Personally, I'd pass on the 5.4 route. Find yourself a wrecked engine doner 4V 4.6 and swap it in, or even a 2V and S/C. That way you'll have all the electronics, fuel rails etc. and decent power.
billfisher
Active Member
billfisher
Active Member
from an aviator or mach1 donor. the one i passed on i bought on e-bay. you can get an aviator for around 2500-3000 with low miles. put an 80mm TB and wellah. of course 450rwhp take gazillions of dollars. fr-500 intake monstrous cams, bazillion dollar porting and good valves, 13:1 CR, etc. but they start with a good foundation. the avaiator is not forged. nor is the auto mach1. they used navi exhaust cams and make killer torque stock.
it's simply amazing how fast a lightly modified mach1 is.
it's simply amazing how fast a lightly modified mach1 is.
Similar threads
