T5 Crossmember...this is hard work...

3spd on floor · Dec 19, 2003

Ok well i got the old one off, took my measurements and drew up the new one. From my measuring i determined that the mounting surface for the trans has to go down 7/8" and back 3/4". I have a jpeg of it, but the attachment thing isnt working for me right now, so let me know if you want it and i'll email it to you.

I also have a SolidWorks file of what i'm making if anyone is interested. It is very similar to the RMP unit that M+ sells.

I'm using 1" x 3/16" bar stock for the sides, and probably some angle for the center section. Unfortunately i dont have anything better to cut this bar stock with than a hacksaw , so its going a little slow for now...i've got one side finished and ready to weld up. Hopefully my arm will keep working and i'll have it be able to weld it tomorrow at my friends house. I will take pics when i'm done and get the drawings perfected so people can duplicate it. This is for a 66, i dont know if other years are the same or not.

Cost of production so far : $5.17

DarkBuddha · Dec 19, 2003

Sounds like fun to me... I went through a similar kinda thing when we did the AOD swap. Lots of measuring, drawing, etc., then we looked at the cutting and welding and decided to just have our resto guy (who has all the right tools) fab it up for us... It was worth it; he had it done within 2 hours and only charged us $35 (and that included the cost of the metal stock), perfect welds, and surprisingly, it fit pretty good... If I ever get the chance I'll make it perfect, but for now it works fine.

Keep up the good work and post pics...

3spd on floor · Dec 19, 2003

ok, got the pic to attach. There are 2 of these that will be connected by a flat piece where the trans mount....mounts... i think i've got all the dimensions covered, but if someone needs more i could put more in, or like i said i could send you the full file and it can be printed to scale and cut out. Pics of the part will follow it is completed. Hopefully it will be done tomorrow.

3spd on floor · Dec 19, 2003

left out one dim.

gp001 · Dec 19, 2003

Ah yes, the fun of fabbing a cross member. For my 6 speed I had very little room to play with. I had to fit it between the legs of my X-pipe and notch it accordingly to fit to the trans. Next time I pull the trans I'm makin a tubular one

6Stang7 · Dec 19, 2003

I'll post mine up A.S.A.P. I went down and bought the one from M+, copied and drafted it, then returned it. Does anyone know if the 65-66 is different then the 67-68? I see yours is a 66 3spd, and the one I made is a 67, so I think we got everyone covered here.

-Shaun

DarkBuddha · Dec 19, 2003

6Stang7 said:
I'll post mine up A.S.A.P. I went down and bought the one from M+, copied and drafted it, then returned it. Does anyone know if the 65-66 is different then the 67-68? I see yours is a 66 3spd, and the one I made is a 67, so I think we got everyone covered here.

-Shaun

Not cool IMHO... I just don't approve of outright "stealing" someone elses design and research, especially when you buy one just to copy it and return it. I don't like Mustangs Plus, but still, if they (or whoever) have done the research and development, then they should be paid for their work. I say send 'em a check for the r&d...

3spd on floor · Dec 20, 2003

well its done, except for drilling the holes, a little grinding and some paint. I used 2" C-channel to span between the two sides. The total cost was under 20 bucks for the metal, and i traded my old broken go-cart frame and some parts for the welding labor. He did VERY clean welds, i think i'll have him put in my subframe connectors when I get them.

I'll borrow my girlfriends camera and get some pics of it in the next few days.

Oh, and I agree about just stealing someone elses R&D, taking all those measurements and figuring everything out is hard work. Its one thing to look at someone elses design and get ideas from it, but to straight up copy it is another story. Its also illegal.

dodgestang · Dec 20, 2003

6Stang7 said:
I'll post mine up A.S.A.P. I went down and bought the one from M+, copied and drafted it, then returned it. Does anyone know if the 65-66 is different then the 67-68? I see yours is a 66 3spd, and the one I made is a 67, so I think we got everyone covered here.

-Shaun

What's even more funny is that the guys from m-plus regularly read the internet forums....prob looked up your profile and are currently trying to figure out who in their database you are so they can put a little black check mark next to you name

3spd on floor · Dec 20, 2003

hey gp001, what did you do for an E-brake mount?

I was thinking about calling M+ and asking if they would sell just the E-brake section from their new pieces. They sell it with the E-brake for 149, and 129 w/o, if they will let me have one for 20 bucks i might buy one. Either that or cut off the old one and see if i cant make it attach somehow.

What's even more funny is that the guys from m-plus regularly read the internet forums....prob looked up your profile and are currently trying to figure out who in their database you are so they can put a little black check mark next to you name

and it wont be too hard being that there probably werent a ton of people that came in and bought a crossmember and returned it today.

gp001 · Dec 20, 2003

3spd on floor said:
hey gp001, what did you do for an E-brake mount?

I use a Lokar e-brake cable kit with my exporer disc brakes so I just welded a "c" channel that I could bolt the pulley wheel to.

Fostang · Dec 20, 2003

dodgestang said:
What's even more funny is that the guys from m-plus regularly read the internet forums....prob looked up your profile and are currently trying to figure out who in their database you are so they can put a little black check mark next to you name

My buds would never do that. LOL.

Tisk Tisk Tisk.

BTW 3spd on floor: I will ship out first thing monday oh and your mailbox is full. I would have pm'd you but couldn't

3spd on floor · Dec 20, 2003

thanks, i'll empty that out.

6Stang7 · Dec 20, 2003

DarkBuddha said:
Not cool IMHO... I just don't approve of outright "stealing" someone elses design and research, especially when you buy one just to copy it and return it. I don't like Mustangs Plus, but still, if they (or whoever) have done the research and development, then they should be paid for their work. I say send 'em a check for the r&d...

If you have the tools and the skill to be able to make it yourself, then I don't see the point in paying $130+ for something that is EXTREMLY easy to make. The only reason why I went this way is because I don't have the tranny, and therefore can't get the mesurements myself. AND did I really "steal" it??? Do you even know what mine looks like????? EVERY SINGLE crossmember out there has the same basic dimensions; all that sets them apart is how they look. How do you know they did the research? What if RMP just took the basic dimensions off another crossmember, then just changed how it looked? Is that "stealing"???

-Shaun

6Stang7 · Dec 20, 2003

dodgestang said:
What's even more funny is that the guys from m-plus regularly read the internet forums....prob looked up your profile and are currently trying to figure out who in their database you are so they can put a little black check mark next to you name

And do what? I've spent thousands of dollars on parts from them. If what I did pisses them off, then so be it, I'll go somewhere else. If you were in there place, would you do anything to lose a costumer who has spent a couple grand on parts from you and who is going to spend a couple more; all over a $130 part???? I honestly don't see anything wrong with what I did. I drove from Livermore to Stockton (over 40 miles one way) to buy the part, then drove back to return it (total of about 160 miles). There was the time spent mesuring it, drafting it, and then the time making it. If mine was a direct copy off the RMP one, then yes I could see something wrong with it. However, I used it just to get mesurement that are the same on every other crossmember.

-Shaun

6Stang7 · Dec 20, 2003

3spd on floor said:
Oh, and I agree about just stealing someone elses R&D, taking all those measurements and figuring everything out is hard work. Its one thing to look at someone elses design and get ideas from it, but to straight up copy it is another story. Its also illegal.

First off, you have no idea what excatily I copied. Second off, what I did was not illegal, as I am not selling it as my own. Now, posting it up might, therefore I won't do it; but I dought any of you would want it since it's from a low life thief like me, right?

-Shaun

Fostang · Dec 20, 2003

6Stang7 said:
And do what? I've spent thousands of dollars on parts from them. If what I did pisses them off, then so be it, I'll go somewhere else. If you were in there place, would you do anything to lose a costumer who has spent a couple grand on parts from you and who is going to spend a couple more; all over a $130 part???? I honestly don't see anything wrong with what I did. I drove from Livermore to Stockton (over 40 miles one way) to buy the part, then drove back to return it (total of about 160 miles). There was the time spent mesuring it, drafting it, and then the time making it. If mine was a direct copy off the RPM one, then yes I could see something wrong with it. However, I used it just to get mesurement that are the same on every other crossmember.

-Shaun

Many people drop thousands there just to clear that up. Some of them do it on a regular basis.

6Stang7 · Dec 20, 2003

Fostang said:
Many people drop thousands there just to clear that up. Some of them do it on a regular basis.

My point was that a couple thousand is worth more then $130. Besides, technically they didn't lose any money. I would have never paid money for any crossmember, so they never had a chance of making it off me to begin with. Now, if they think that what I did ethically was wrong and for those reasons do not want to do business with me, then as I said before, so be it.

-Shaun

347Fastback · Dec 20, 2003

Dude, don't sweat the small stuff. You did what most other shops do to save time and be able to sell the same part and put their label on it. I worked in a shop and every time a new mustang part came out, the boss would buy one and send it to Hong kong and get it made very cheap and then under cut prices... This is nothing new to world of selling car parts.... I am not saying it is right but it happens all the time....

DarkBuddha · Dec 20, 2003

6Stang7 said:
If you have the tools and the skill to be able to make it yourself, then I don't see the point in paying $130+ for something that is EXTREMLY easy to make. The only reason why I went this way is because I don't have the tranny, and therefore can't get the mesurements myself. AND did I really "steal" it??? Do you even know what mine looks like????? EVERY SINGLE crossmember out there has the same basic dimensions; all that sets them apart is how they look. How do you know they did the research? What if RMP just took the basic dimensions off another crossmember, then just changed how it looked? Is that "stealing"???

-Shaun

This is generally poor logic Shaun. Essentially, I just disagree with your approach to making your own version. I have no problem with making your own version of anything, or even copying design ideas (especially if it saves money). But you stated that you "bought the one from M+, copied and drafted it, then returned it." This seems pretty cut and dry to me... you took their version and copied it. I can only assume that you "copied" the dimensions and design, which equates to "stealing" someone else's R&D to me. And it doesn't matter why you did it (i.e. you didn't have the tranny yet, it was easier, it saved time, etc.)... it is still stealing. And certainly, if it so "EXTREMLY easy to make", then why not just wait until you get the tranny and do the work then?

Now, if you did change the design, didn't use their exact dimensions, etc., then that is a different story. I'm all in favor of making your own version, inspired by, or even designed similarly to, another design. That is basically what I did with my AOD crossmember... I looked at several pictures of others' designs and then went and did the measurements and got it welded together. I think the fact that I put in the R&D to make it happen makes it mine, as opposed to "stealing" it from someone else.

I do think many of us overlook the value of these aftermarket companies that do the R&D for products for our Mustangs. Certainly, if someone hadn't made a version of the crossmembers I used for inspiration, then I know I would have felt more intimidated when attempting my own version. How many of us have used one of these companies' designs as inspiration or a model for some mod we did ourselves? I hate when I feel companies gouging customers (Mustangs Plus is notorious for this), but I do appreciate their work and efforts nonetheless.

T5 Crossmember...this is hard work...

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