TCP- Manual R/P steering opinions please!

Jon350 · Feb 8, 2009

So I rebuilt the power steering in my 65 fastback about 5 years back with a flaming rivers quick steer box, polyurethan bushings and several other worn out comonents.....While the steering definitely felt more responsive, it never had a tactile feel.

.....Fast forward 5 years to the present and now the steering is downright irritating to me......my other vehicle is a Honda S2000. When I go from driving my S2K to my fastback, I sometimes get to the point where I don't even enjoy driving the mustang anymore and THAT's is the saddest part of all!

ANyways, I have manual brakes in the fastback and am used to putting extra effort into brake pressure........So along those same lines, I'm wondering if anyone out there has had experience with TCP's Manual Rack and Pinion steering conversion?

Because the fastback isn't my daily driver I don't think muscling the car at low speeds in parking lots will be that much of a concern.....

- But more importantly, those who do have experience with the manual r/p kit, what are your reviews and opinions of the product?

- Is it much more responsive than standard or "quick steering (16:1 ratio)" steering setups?

- I'm sure some people might prefer the power steering version of this kit, but with speeds above 15-20mph, is the power steering assistance still necessary???

68efisuper · Feb 8, 2009

It looks like you auto-x or open track your mustang. I have a 68 Fastback that I open track and drive on the street. I have a Tcp man rack in mine with 245 45 17
tires on the front and it is a pleasure to drive. I have an 05 mustang Gt and the old fastback is a better steering and feeling car on the track then the new one. In a parking lot is a whole different matter. The 68 does take more muscle, but it is not bad, but really worth it. Here is a video of the car at Infineon with the Tcp rack.
YouTube - Mustang Fastback Infineon Road Course 2008
As you can see, very quick ratio and excellent feedback.

jerry S · Feb 9, 2009

I have the TCP manual R&P and can recommend it 100%. It can be a bit of a chore turing the wheels when the car isn't moving but once it is going, it is the difference between night and day. go for it.

10secgoal · Feb 9, 2009

It's much more responsive than and "box." It's just they way the gearing inside meets. It will never be as close to a R&P, brand new box or not. Done a few of them and customrs always love them. Only thing I can recomend is to consider the P/S version mainly because if you want P/S later, you can't just add a pump. As long you your OK with that, you'll love it. I hate gtting out of customers cars with racks and then try to drive mine. I have the same feeling you do. I like the manual better at speed though.

pyroman · Feb 9, 2009

I'm really glad I came across this thread as I have been thinking about steering options for awhile! This kind of thing is almost exactly what I want to do with my mustang. It sounds like most in this thread have more experience with this but I can speak about living without power steering. I drove my 67 for 6 months after the power steering pump let go and I made it just fine. The only chore was parking, but its something you get used to. Plus I was using it as a daily driver, so I had to go through it everyday, you don't have that issue. So if you don't mind putting a little muscle into your driving I really don't think you'll mind and you'll get some bigger arms!

Mustang1969 · Feb 9, 2009

I got a power rack and pinion from TCP put in my '69 fastback. Night and day difference and I have 245s up front. In the past year I've owned a '07 S2000 and '06 Evo IX, so I can relate to your pain. My steering wheel went from an eighth turn of play/slop to none. It's a new car. The only thing I am not happy with is how tough it is to turn after driving for a while at low low parking lot speeds, which I think is the generic pump's fault. This year I hope to install an electric MR2 power steering pump that'll give me constant line pressure.

coolblue65 · Feb 9, 2009

So how does the effort of the TCP manual rack compare to the effort of stock standard ratio manual rack in parking lot?

Jon350 · Feb 9, 2009

coolblue65 said:
So how does the effort of the TCP manual rack compare to the effort of stock standard ratio manual rack in parking lot?

MY biggest concern and reason for wanting a more precise steering system in the first place is: I NEED the feel of an accurate and communicative weighted steering system at high speeds. The power steering of an older Mustang REALLY doesn't cut it in quick manuevering situations. So that's why I'm thinking a manual TCP R/P system would really help....

So I guess the next question would be: Are the power TCP systems somewhat lofty/light feeling at higher speeds? I know the power steering pump can be adjusted, but then at that point, why not just stick with the cheaper less complicated manual rack? I simply HATE having to deal with power steering oil leaks...big OR small...

10secgoal · Feb 9, 2009

It's I think a little harder than a stock ratio box. You average rack and pinion is less turns lock to lock than a box,making it naturally tougher. But it's not that bad really. The rack isn't floaty at all. I know you think like the box is not, and it's nothing like it. You turn it a smidgen, the car turns a smidgen. Wheel to car communication is instant if everything else is up to par.

armand67Fstback · Feb 9, 2009

Great thread, I have the TCP manual rack that I have not installed because my car is in pieces. I am glad to hear people are happy with them. The build quality looks excellent and everything looks like it is built to last a long time.
:SNSign:

65 fastback · Feb 9, 2009

Another TCP Manual Rack and Pinion satisfied customer. I would say the effort felt very similar to the manual box that I removed initially, but after the rack broke in some, the effort reduced. Also, I reduced the steering effort further by replacing the tie-rods with a Baer Tracker Bump Steer Kit with hemispherical bearings and upgrading to the roller spring perch. Both made noticable improvements in steering effort reduction.

Tim

Jon350 · Feb 9, 2009

From the sound of it, while the Manual R/P requires a little extra effort at first (slow speeds) it comes alive once you get up to speed.

.....I've been tracking all the TCP products since their inception and trust their quality...... so I think I'll go ahead and pick a manual kit, and make my mustang one happy pony.

Thanx for all the input guys!

pyroman · Feb 9, 2009

Assuming the discussion about the rack is pretty much over....what front and rear suspension setups are you using Jon350 and 68efisuper?

Rapid · Feb 10, 2009

Same question here.

I Aurtocross my 65 and am woking to get the rear axle under control. Need opinions on panhard rods.

68efisuper · Feb 10, 2009

I am using the Tcp complete front suspensions with 450 lb springs and the fully adjustable shocks and a 1" sway bar. In the rear I am running the Maier racing 165 lb race springs and their adjustable panhard bar. The car is great at high speed sweepers, I have even had a friend who tracks an M3 say it sticks very well. The car does push in the low speed corners and I am hoping with some more negative camber I can get rid of that. But, I also run 275 tires in the rear with 245's up front so I am sure that does not help the push at all. Here is some more video at Thunderhill raceway and the first time the car was on the track.
YouTube - Mustang Fastback at Thunderhill Raceway
The car is now painted by the way.
But I cannot get a picture to work.

Jon350 · Feb 10, 2009

pyroman said:
Assuming the discussion about the rack is pretty much over....what front and rear suspension setups are you using Jon350 and 68efisuper?

welp when i first got my fastback I was 15 and was under a somewhat limited budget.....So I went through the suspension/chassis with a conservative cost track/street setup.

Keep in mind i did all the work myself and plotted it all out on a limited budget....

Front:
I drilled out the upper A-arm mounts to lower it 1" and add camber; 620lb coil springs to lower it another inch; Spax Adjustable Shocks; 1-1/8" sway bar; monte carlo bar & shock tower to firewall brace; GW subframe connectors.

Rear:
5 leaf mid-eye springs; Spax Adjustable Shocks; Maier fully adjustable panhard kit.

(if there is a polyurethane bushing available, i have it on the car)

While this setup isn't necessarily the best that money can buy, it is a damn good setup for my rig...oh yeah...did i mention it has a wet weight of 2734lbs? I love that my muscle car weighs almost 100lbs less than my S2000.

....oh yeah, i love the stability that the maier panhard provides....but recently I've been tempted to look into the Evolution Motorsports Watts-link....

68efisuper · Feb 10, 2009

Jon350,

How did you get the weight down to 2734 lbs? Does it have a full interior?
My 68 weighed in at 3140 with gas and no driver. I was hoping to get it under 3000
But I do not want to strip the interior. Nice car by the way.

Jon350 · Feb 10, 2009

68efisuper said:
Jon350,

How did you get the weight down to 2734 lbs? Does it have a full interior?
My 68 weighed in at 3140 with gas and no driver. I was hoping to get it under 3000
But I do not want to strip the interior. Nice car by the way.

haha...sorry I gutted the interior....I have a dash, and all the vertical interior panels....but the rear seat is gone, the carpet & insulation (including the trunk) is gone...oh oh I have the headliner still

All the engine parts minus the crank and block(306cid) are aluminum; my rear-end is a currie 8" with the aluminum 3rd member setup; the hood is a one piece fiberglass mold, the R-valance is fiberglass; the fenders are fiberglass; and the wheels are 15x7 so the wheel/tire package is pretty light.

68efisuper · Feb 10, 2009

I feel better now. I thought mine was a heavy pig. I have the full interior and trunk and all the fiberglass. But I have a 9 inch in the rear and 13" brakes up front and 12" in the rear with 17 inch wheels. I also have lots of extra metal to add strength
to the car and a heavy Kenne Bell supercharger.

Rapid · Feb 10, 2009

The Maier panhard is what I am considering. Does it make a considerable difference?

TCP- Manual R/P steering opinions please!

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