TCP power R&P now only 2500

96 DOHC Cobra · Aug 20, 2005

TheShagg said:
Believe it or not, I think the best and cheapest way to accomplish a good and inexpensive rack kit is to have someone make new spindles with shorter steering arms so that we can use all these racks available with shorter stroke.

How about new spindles that convert to front-steer?

TheShagg · Aug 20, 2005

96 DOHC Cobra said:
How about new spindles that convert to front-steer?

There are several available racks that rear steer (Taurus for example), so I doubt the trouble of front steer is worth it. It would require redoing half the suspension (sway bars, strut rods) and different oil pans... and probably more. Rear steer works fine, and I think the only advantage of front steer is that it generates understeer in some conditions.

bnickel · Aug 20, 2005

96 DOHC Cobra said:
How about new spindles that convert to front-steer?

why? personally i prefer a nice rear steer system to a front steer system. i can feel the ragged edge of traction a lot better with a rear steer setup. front steer always seems to want to jerk the wheel out of my hands in hard corners

Route666 · Aug 20, 2005

Is there seriously a difference between front and rear steering arms on the spindles/knuckles? How?

96 DOHC Cobra · Aug 21, 2005

I'm sure that different people will have different preferences. I would prefer a front-steer setup. I think putting the rack up front would clear up a lot space for headers.

TheShagg · Aug 21, 2005

96 DOHC Cobra said:
I'm sure that different people will have different preferences. I would prefer a front-steer setup. I think putting the rack up front would clear up a lot space for headers.

Well... is it worth the work relocating the other stuff so you get more room for headers? Move one or the other, i guess it's your pick.

iamlance · Aug 21, 2005

I have the Randalls rack. Works great with the Corvette P.S. pump he also sells. I notice a big difference in the turning circle and it can be a p.i.t.a.
Hey Bnickle, Wouldn't the bump steer kit cause a wheel interference issue??

RGS0907 · Aug 21, 2005

iamlance said:
I have the Randalls rack. Works great with the Corvette P.S. pump he also sells. I notice a big difference in the turning circle and it can be a p.i.t.a.
Hey Bnickle, Wouldn't the bump steer kit cause a wheel interference issue??

So the turning circle is a lot wider?

streetgrande69 · Aug 22, 2005

the turning circle is also larger witht he tcp power rack. it's only bad if you park in really tight spots all the time, and yes people, i live in san diego, its crowded!. i can do a 3 point turn just like any other car.
i just don't believe there is enough room under there to put a rack gear shaft that can swing the distance needed to grt the origional circle, i haven't seen 1 yet.

65up2d8 · Aug 22, 2005

streetgrande69 said:
the turning circle is also larger witht he tcp power rack. it's only bad if you park in really tight spots all the time, and yes people, i live in san diego, its crowded!. i can do a 3 point turn just like any other car.
i just don't believe there is enough room under there to put a rack gear shaft that can swing the distance needed to grt the origional circle, i haven't seen 1 yet.

I'm ignorant regarding the turning radius issue with rack and pinion setups. Is this true of new cars with rack and pinion or is there some engineering issue regarding the installation of a rack and pinion in an early Mustang that causes this problem? How much of an increased turning radius are we talking about here?

Håkan · Aug 22, 2005

streetgrande69 said:
i just don't believe there is enough room under there to put a rack gear shaft that can swing the distance needed to grt the origional circle, i haven't seen 1 yet.

There is room enough, neither of the r&p installs I have done have had any problems with an increased turning radius.

bnickel · Aug 22, 2005

a standard parralellogram type suspension is always going to have a better turning radius because of increased ackerman than a rack and pinion system. you can decrease it some with the pro-motorsport bumpsteer kit since the tie rod is moved closer to the centerline of the spindle but how much exactly i'm not sure. bot sure if it will cause tire/rim clearance issues or not but shouldn't be any more than what the pro-motorsports kit has with the standard system

Edbert · Aug 22, 2005

The decreased radius is what, less than 5%? That will not be evident in anything other than parking lots and U-turns. Having driven an F150 for almost 20 years, you sorta learn to plan ahead in the parking lots anyhow

If you move to a front-steer rack you will get the additional benefit of a rear-sump pan, better under high acceleration than a front-sump unless you already have an improved pan. But I'm not convinced that getting the rack out of the way of the headers will help since your steering linkage (input) will have to be plumbed though there now. FWIW my TCP rack had no clearance issues with long tube headers in my 67 with 351W. See a couple of pics here: http://www.edbert.net/randp.htm

66Runt · Aug 18, 2006

There are two problems with that logic

bnickel said:
hey Shagg, if you use the bump steer kit pro-motorsports it relocates the tie rod to a position that makes it act like it has a shorter steering arm. with most j-car style racks you can actually adjust the position of the rack somewhat to help with bumpsteer. i'm planning on using a randalls rack with pro-m bump kit. it should just about even out the turning radius to what it was before the rack.

i also plan on using a bunch of opentrackers mods like the roller perches, the spherical bearing in the LCA and a set adjustable strut rods that i will probably make myself as well. i may even do opentrackers adjustable UCA. that man has some wicked cool suspension ideas for our stangs.

i'm pretty sure i will also do a version of his rear watts link as well, maybe a cross between his and the fays 2 kit. i already have a set of 5 leaf mid-eyes and will probably get on of GW's delalum bushing kits as well

I have the Randall's Rack in my '66. It works very well sans the turning radius (43', same as a club cab ranger).

First issue with using the Pro-M kit is that you are making a very quick steering car even quicker. The Randall's rack has a lock to lock of 40 degrees less than 3 turns. That is fast even with the deminished turning radius (2.2" rack movement per turn). Move the steer points in and you quicken the steering, especially just off center. After 1,500 miles driving with this rack, on everything from fast twisties to open highway, I would suggest not using anything that shortens the throw, and to stay away from any steering wheels less than 15" in diameter.

Second issue with the Pro-M kit is that you lower the mount point by 1". Randalls Rack is all ready set up for a car that has a 1" Shelby drop and 1" cut springs. Unless you plan to radically lower your car you will induce bump steer. I did the 1" Shelby drop, and have the car lowered a total of 1.5" from stock. The bump steer is negligable, until you get the front end lifted about 3" from ride height.

So I would accept the rack for what it is. If you radically lower the car, then I would suggest using an adjustable bump steer kit like a Baer Tracker.
I'm very happy with the rack. It performs great. I would like to see the lock to lock slightly higher than 3 turns, and a 7" rack throw instead of the 6 3/8". But that would take a custom R&P.

TOM B · Aug 18, 2006

IF ALL OF US WOULD JUST STOP BITC*EN AND SEND THEM A NASTY EMAIL OR 2

DarkBuddha · Aug 18, 2006

TOM B said:
IF ALL OF US WOULD JUST STOP BITC*EN AND SEND THEM A NASTY EMAIL OR 2

Uh... I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly, but if it's about the price of the TCP rack being $2500, you're way way way late... check the age of the first post of this thread... from March 2002...

TOM B · Aug 18, 2006

Its never to late. Keep doing it gets results

Rusty67 · Aug 18, 2006

It is too late. TCP doesn't even really exist anymore. Aliston's Chasis Works or what ever the name is bought TCP out a while ago and no longer has any affiliation with the original owners.

TOM B · Aug 18, 2006

IF the prices are as high then we send Emails to them

mdjay · Aug 19, 2006

ummm the manual is 1299 and the power is 1999

TCP power R&P now only 2500

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