The Official kiddiccarus 2007 NFL Thread

mrvax said:

The reason is not too important. What could be the result of his "reason" is what I addressed.

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I don't really think he is piling it on as much as many people think.. This team is very very good, belichick called off the dogs after the last TD drive that ended in the opening minutes of the forth quarter. he pulled the first team out of most of the games and look at last nights game they ran dives up the middle the whole forth quarter and punted when they could have kicked a long FG

Listen to belichicks explaination of the forth down plays.. He explained that he thinks kicking a fg is tacking it on and just as I said going for it on forth provides two good things..

1. it gives the other team a chance for a stop with no points allowed. All of these forth down plays occurred deep in the other teams half of the field.

2. it is a chance to hone 4th down conversion skills and see what plays work and what don't.. That can be key latter on in a close game..


I really don't remember all this talk about other great offenses of the past. Sure they did not have the defense this team has but what do people want from them to suck on purpose?

say the Patriots dont go for it on that 4th down VS buffalo and kick a field goal instead. So the finial score is 52-10 instead of 56-10?

Whats the difference?

What I was saying was he didn't even need to start any of the starters in the 4th qt.. but you guys can keep telling yourselves what you want.. I'm not the only one who's said anything here, i think just about 75% of all NFL commentators have said it as well. So back the F off....



It will be funny if the pats loose to the jets

1990Coupe said:

It will be funny if the pats loose to the jets

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I'd drop of heart failure.

1990Coupe said:

What I was saying was he didn't even need to start any of the starters in the 4th qt.. but you guys can keep telling yourselves what you want.. I'm not the only one who's said anything here, i think just about 75% of all NFL commentators have said it as well. So back the F off....



It will be funny if the pats loose to the jets

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Calm down! you don't need to tell me to back the F off, we are just disagreeing nothing personal.

They were in the middle of a drive at the end of the 3rd quarter. I can't remember the last time I have seen a NFL team pull the starters in the middle of a series. BTW that was the last series the starters played.

Plus these forth down plays people have been talking about only came up a few times. it probably averages 1 per game.

I would be SHOCKED if the jets beat the pats in foxboro.. Now if you want to talk about running it up I think you may see it in that game.

I'll bet after the "stealing the signals fiasco" Belichick has it in for Mangina!

mrvax said:

I'll bet after the "stealing the signals fiasco" Belichick has it in for Mangina!

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Has it in for might be a understatment

I predict 6 TD's from Brady and over 60 points on the score board.

Heard it here first.

Redline_351R said:

I predict 6 TD's from Brady and over 60 points on the score board.

Heard it here first.

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I would not be surprised.. I imagine belichick HATES mangina now.

If anyone wants to point fingers it should be at mangina. If he just let Belichick take the videos he wanted and not said anything then perhaps teams would not be buried week after week. He opened up Pandora's box and now everyone must suffer

Yep. I think everyone should let him film away at this point.

Redline_351R said:

If anyone wants to point fingers it should be at mangina. If he just let Belichick take the videos he wanted and not said anything then perhaps teams would not be buried week after week. He opened up Pandora's box and now everyone must suffer

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true.. BUT what helped create this monster is how some so called experts and some fraud players and coaches distorted the facts of how the tape can be used... sure what belichick was wrong and I wish he never did it but it was also wrong to mislead people to make yourself look better for past losses.

One of the biggest collections of frauds with big mouths and a lot of excuses is heading to foxboro next week Many current and former eagles in the aftermath of cameragate had a lot to say and some went as far of saying the pats did not earn the SB win over them.. HMMM

Tied for second is the chargers and I know this won't be popular in here and may start a new forum war... The steelers.. several steelers players used cameragate as a excuse for loosing 2 afc title games.

Most NFL players and coaches realize that the pundits and talking heads are mostly fools that will say anything to create the biggest splash.. BUT it was when players and coaches who KNOW better mislead people and use this camera thing as a excuse to tarnish what another team did thats what opened Pandora's box..

This crap offended the pats players deeply and now you have a very pissed off motivated team..

There are two types of teams left for the Patriots to beat. The regular teams they are going to beat, and the ones that have run their mouth as far as the spygate being a crutch for past cheating and non deserved NFL Championships.

If the eagles and or players have run their mouth there will be no mercy, the jets have sealed their fate.

I must comment one last time.

If the taping did not help, he wouldnt have taken the risk in doing it. There is no possible way for anyone to deny that.

To what extent no one knows. But this year cannot be taken as an example that it made no difference because this year they have Randy Moss. Randy Moss is game breaker and is what makes that offense so great. He is what beat the Colts, well that and a Reggie Wayne dropped sure TD in the 4th that would have closed it out but I digress.

Why do the jets have it out for them?? Because they exposed the fact that the pats were taping illegally? I can understand why the pats are pissed but hey, the jets caught mom in bed with another man, and told dad

1990Coupe said:

Why do the jets have it out for them?? Because they exposed the fact that the pats were taping illegally? I can understand why the pats are pissed but hey, the jets caught mom in bed with another man, and told dad

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I dont blame the jets for what they did b/c what the patriots did was wrong but it was the can of worms it opened as far as everyone accusing them of only being good b/c they cheat, past Superbowl's were won b/c of cheating, only beat the colts for so long b/c they cheat. Its nt the fact that mangina broke open spygate, its the back lash it caused afterwords for why the Patriots are out doing what they are doing and if any team happens to be one that shoot off at the mouth about them cheating then they can expect a brutal 60 mins of football.

04DarkShadowGT said:

I must comment one last time.

If the taping did not help, he wouldnt have taken the risk in doing it. There is no possible way for anyone to deny that.

To what extent no one knows. But this year cannot be taken as an example that it made no difference because this year they have Randy Moss. Randy Moss is game breaker and is what makes that offense so great. He is what beat the Colts, well that and a Reggie Wayne dropped sure TD in the 4th that would have closed it out but I digress.

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What Belichick did was WRONG and I am not saying it did not help them, BUT the issue I have and the issue a lot of pats players, coaches and fans have is that the impact is overblown and a lot of people had some misleading stuff to say to try and make themselves look better.

There was players/coaches who know better saying the pats were doing stuff with that tape that THEY KNOW is impossible, but much of the general public don't know that. Since you can legally videotape the signals from anywhere else on the field In my point of view the damage done to the pats by these scummy excuse makers in my opinion is just as bad if not worse..

I know we will disagree but you know you would not like it if was the colts that people were discrediting with misleading and false interpretation of facts

Plus there was a lot of pot/kettle/black going on in that whole thing.

I think you are right about the impact of moss and the 2 other WR's they added.. They went from the worst WR's in the league to probably the best WR's in the league. Anybody that follows this team can now see how BAD those other guys were and how overrated branch, givens and patton were when they were here.

the stats AFTER leaving NE will back me up on that point.

Redline_351R said:

I dont blame the jets for what they did b/c what the patriots did was wrong but it was the can of worms it opened as far as everyone accusing them of only being good b/c they cheat, past Superbowl's were won b/c of cheating, only beat the colts for so long b/c they cheat. Its nt the fact that mangina broke open spygate, its the back lash it caused afterwords for why the Patriots are out doing what they are doing and if any team happens to be one that shot off at the mouth about them cheating then they can expect a brutal 60 mins of football.

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I don't blame them as a team.. but it's WRONG and it's backstabbing to try to ruin the man that took you from being nothing and gave you a chance to make millions of dollars. I don't know about you but I would be very grateful to a man that gave me that chance.. If you read the story about mangini (sp?) you will see my point.

Some people think that mangini did not think this would have gotten so out of control and several NFL sources have been quoted as saying it may hurt his chances at another job as a cordinator if he looses his job in NY.. All NFl coaches have some sort of rule bending things they do and they might not want a potential rat seeing it all.

I will tell the story for those that don't know or want to look it up

Mangini was a office intern and ballboy for the browns, belichick got talking with him because they were both in the browns offices working late so he took him under his wing and tought him the buisness.

Here is the link to a article about it. ( this is before cameragate)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-mangini112906&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

here is the interesting part..

some article said:

These days, Belichick and Mangini are in the midst of a quiet-but-public disagreement over how Mangini left the Patriots after last season. Mangini, who was the defensive coordinator with New England, started talking to other members of the Patriots' coaching staff about whether they would like to go with him before he was formally offered the Jets job. Belichick took that as an attempt to raid the roost and the two have talked about one another in very cold terms ever since.

Still, Belichick has been impressed with Mangini for a long time and it had little to do with the fact that they both are Wesleyan grads. Belichick was more impressed with Mangini's work on the Queen Mary. Not the boat. Rather, the giant copy machine that used to be in the Browns' offices before the team scampered to Baltimore in 1996. That's where Mangini would be up all hours of the day and night, copying material for the public relations office where he worked as an intern after being a ball boy for the team in training camp.

Then-Browns coach Bill Belichick noticed Mangini's work ethic, if not his name. One day toward the end of the season, as Mangini's internship was about to run out, Belichick walked into PR man Kevin Byrne's office.

"What are you going to do with the blonde kid?" Belichick asked Byrne. Shortly after, Mangini was working as a staff assistant with the coaches.

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svttech76 said:

What Belichick did was WRONG and I am not saying it did not help them, BUT the issue I have and the issue a lot of pats players, coaches and fans have is that the impact is overblown and a lot of people had some misleading stuff to say to try and make themselves look better.

There was players/coaches who know better saying the pats were doing stuff with that tape that THEY KNOW is impossible, but much of the general public don't know that. Since you can legally videotape the signals from anywhere else on the field In my point of view the damage done to the pats by these scummy excuse makers in my opinion is just as bad if not worse..

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Thats the thing, no one will know how little or how much it did help. I can tell you 100% for sure a QB can be alot more accurate if they know the play the defense is going to run

svttech76 said:

I know we will disagree but you know you would not like it if was the colts that people were discrediting with misleading and false interpretation of facts

Plus there was a lot of pot/kettle/black going on in that whole thing.

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I would be dissapointed in the Colts if they cheated, but the Patriots reaped what they sew. They cheated, they got caught, people were questioning them.

I am not trying to say this is the same level of help as roids did for Bonds, but Bonds cheated, got caught (pretty much) and now there will always be an *

Do I think it should taint the Patriots SB wins, of course not. They had a great team with great coaching and a great QB. But all the wins they did have were very close so who knows.

svttech76 said:

I think you are right about the impact of moss and the 2 other WR's they added.. They went from the worst WR's in the league to probably the best WR's in the league. Anybody that follows this team can now see how BAD those other guys were and how overrated branch, givens and patton were when they were here.

the stats AFTER leaving NE will back me up on that point.

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I really dont think Deon Branch is that bad. Id say he is very good when he is healthy. He has been out nearly all season this year but when he has played has done very well, his numbers have not fallen off at all since going to Seattle.

Same deal with Givens, tore his ACL his first year with Tennesee and hasnt played this season.

Patton hasnt been very good with the Redskins but was also injured most of the time. He has done well with NO this year.

04DarkShadowGT said:

Thats the thing, no one will know how little or how much it did help. I can tell you 100% for sure a QB can be alot more accurate if they know the play the defense is going to run



I would be dissapointed in the Colts if they cheated, but the Patriots reaped what they sew. They cheated, they got caught, people were questioning them.

I am not trying to say this is the same level of help as roids did for Bonds, but Bonds cheated, got caught (pretty much) and now there will always be an *

Do I think it should taint the Patriots SB wins, of course not. They had a great team with great coaching and a great QB. But all the wins they did have were very close so who knows.



I really dont think Deon Branch is that bad. Id say he is very good when he is healthy. He has been out nearly all season this year but when he has played has done very well, his numbers have not fallen off at all since going to Seattle.

Same deal with Givens, tore his ACL his first year with Tennesee and hasnt played this season.

Patton hasnt been very good with the Redskins but was also injured most of the time. He has done well with NO this year.

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I disagree with you that it was "cheating" breaking a rule yes.. but what was on those tapes also could have been taped from other spots in the stadium and it would have been ok.. One of the reasons I heard that they and other teams taped from the sidelines is because when you are on the road the home team tends to try and put your video guys in bad spots to tape from.

But you are right we will never know how much or how little it helped.. But I know we can agree to disagree on the cheating part

now about them WR's

patten numbers since leaving ne is

2005 5 games 22 catches and 217 yards no td's
2006 very little hardly played
2007 10 games 29 catches for 488 yards and 1 td..

No bad but hardly a weapon

Givens

8 games 104 yards no td's

branch I agree is a decent WR not a number one but a damm good 2 on just about any team. I did not post hisnumbers because he like givens has not played much and I too think he is decent but was overrated