Thoughts on electronic water pump over regular performance pump?

90bluegt · Nov 26, 2007

I have about 3 - 4k on it (total), but this year was spent mainly tuning the car and I went through to full tanks of 2 gas just idling in the driveway with rips up and down the street, then shut down for about 2 mins change the tune upload the new tune then start it back up again and idle in the drive for about 5 min then a rip up and down the road. So I would say that I pushed it this summer with so much on-off stuff rather than straight running it.

5spd GT · Nov 26, 2007

90bluegt said:
I have about 3 - 4k on it (total), but this year was spent mainly tuning the car and I went through to full tanks of 2 gas just idling in the driveway with rips up and down the street, then shut down for about 2 mins change the tune upload the new tune then start it back up again and idle in the drive for about 5 min then a rip up and down the road. So I would say that I pushed it this summer with so much on-off stuff rather than straight running it.

Thanks for the response.

This is the thing, I just do not see high mileage being done to these water pumps. It is not the water pumps fault of course

If you buy an OEM quality mechanical water pump, you will get 100,000+ trouble free miles out of it. If you buy a cheap water pump replacement from the local parts store, then I could see some problems.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Nov 26, 2007

I wouldn't run one on the street be it weekend warrior or not...there's a big difference between 1/4 mile at a time driving and even a 10 mile cruise. I just don't trust them as much as i would a mechanical pump. If i had a strip only car though, absolutely.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 26, 2007

Most E-pumps have a rated lifespan in hours. Most will exceed that rating easily, but it's up to you to do the math and see if 10,000 hours is 1.5 years or 4 years the way you drive it.

Also, running the motor slightly underpowered (alt too small or wire size too small) will decrease the lifespan.

Running in a dirty environment can affect the motors.

Running hot can affect them

Many factors go into this. There is no cut and dry answer

90bluegt · Nov 26, 2007

I wouldn't put a second thought into getting another Meziere water pump. I would get it with out question for street use, they are rated for street use so why not use them for it. When this one goes and if it can't repaired then I'll be getting another one. It frees horsepower and keeps a constant flow of water rather than flowing faster when the engine is in the higher RPM's and can keep things more consistent.

Just my nickel on this..

Daggar · Nov 26, 2007

One other consideration is the rebuildability (I just invented that word). Sure, it might cost you $400 up front but it's usually somewhere between 30 and 50 bucks to rebuild if the electric motor craps out.

If the idler pulley on the Mezier goes out or cooks a bearing, then it might cost a bit more.

Mezier's website says that their has an average rating of 3000 hours. Let's figure for a moment, 60 MPH (average ball-park)... That's 180,000 miles. Even if we take half of that for idle time with the motor running and car not moving, that's still 90,000 miles.

CSR recommends a motor change ever 3500 hours or 50,000 miles. If they really do last that long, then I'd be stoked! I can't say that I've ever had a mechanical pump that has lasted for 50,000 miles. I have roughly 130,000+ miles on my car and have gone through at least half a dozen water pumps since I've owned it. I've not idea how many pump changes it had prior to me taking pocesssion.

Anyone know what CSR gets for just the replacement motor?

5spd GT · Nov 26, 2007

Hmmm....

Seems to me the electric water pump is more like an oil change.

I am sure CSR Performance did their testing and it seems to go against the 60 mph numbers, but I understand the point.

3500 hours or 50,000 miles. I have not seen an OEM water pump with that short of a lifespan.

Buy an OEM water pump and you get OEM quality.

Mechanical pumps are going to "fault" more on high performance engines. I believe many forget that a belt-driven water pump is going to see more strain on high performance engines, pushing 2x (plus) more power than from the factory.

A mechanical pump can be rebuilt as well.

I would rather save a few horsepower and put the extra $350 somewhere else, and keep my electrical system happier.

This thread has enlightened me into looking into an electric water pump. I still am not buying how one needs all this water flow at idle, if you have a fan to back it up. If you do not have a good coolant system to begin with, I believe that needs to be changed first.

As the revs get higher, so does heat. Thus, a mechanical pumps linearness (I am making up words too), comes into affect.

Mustang5L5 listed somethings I did not think about as well.

If the EWP shorts out or the motor goes out like a light bulb, you are up a creek, without a paddle.

In my experience, a mechanical pump tends to give signs of failure when it does start wearing out.

Keep the comments coming; I am enjoying the conversation. I will admit, I have considered the EWP more, but I am not sold on them for a daily driver with a 15-20 year old electrical system.

Edit: Does the backing plate need to be purchased seperately from CSR as well for the EWP?

2Tone5.0 · Nov 27, 2007

Ok so from the looks of it seems most of you guys are argreeing on the Meziere Pump to be the best for price/performance return, which i'll probably be dropping my money into.

So heres my next question...

With my old 306 motor i blew out the alt. (it was stock 14-15yr old). I have a replacement OEM in there with only about 2k miles on it. Right now im also running an E-Fan that came with the automatic thermostat switch which you set manually under the hood.
I'm not going to say the wiring is upgraded, I just simply do not know if it is or not. Just the alt is brand new and maybe ford upgraded the wiring materials and gauge from 15yrs ago?
So now if i put in the Meziere E.pump. I have The E.Fan, E.Pump. all running on a new stock alt. Can i be okay on just upgrading the wires? If not should i just run the alt untill it dies with upgraded wires, then just upgrade to a better alt?
Also, does the rest of the quality of your ignition system affect this situation (i.e Racing wires, ignition coil, performance distributor?)

Heres the list of E.pumps from Meziere...
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400027+4294822055+115&Nao=0#rstop
I have no idea what to pick

2Tone5.0 · Nov 27, 2007

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400027+4294822055+115&Nao=0#rstop

COILDUP · Nov 27, 2007

2Tone5.0 said:
So now if i put in the Meziere E.pump. I have The E.Fan, E.Pump. all running on a new stock alt. Can i be okay on just upgrading the wires? If not should i just run the alt untill it dies with upgraded wires, then just upgrade to a better alt?
Also, does the rest of the quality of your ignition system affect this situation (i.e Racing wires, ignition coil, performance distributor?)

If your new alt has the fan mounted externally then you are still running a 2G. I wouldn't even consider running either efan or epump (much less both) without upgrading to a 3G first. The 2G alt can barely even keep up with the stock electrical system. The 3G swap is easy and relatively inexpensive.

http://www.corral.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=118&Itemid=26

The only step I would sway from this article would be to run a single 4 ga power cable in place of the 2 stock 10 ga wires. I would also add another 4 ga ground wire as cheap insurance. Do a search and you'll find more info on this than you'll ever want to know. You can also do like I did and just buy the wiring kit from PA Performance -- made my life much easier.

Hope this helps!!

MrXCESSIVESPEED · Nov 27, 2007

Daggar said:
When I finally break down and get mine, it will be the one with the built in idler pulley so that I don't have to do any monkey business with the belt or pullies. I have no intention whatsoever of running a custom pulley and bracket system.

I run that pump on my LX, works GREAT!

GroverDill · Nov 27, 2007

Have it, Like it, feel it was worth the money.

Djstorm100 · Nov 27, 2007

35gph or 55gph? If i'm building a 600hp monster 55?

Daggar · Nov 28, 2007

Yeah... everyone who logs into the site is building a 600 HP Monster. lol

Djstorm100 · Nov 28, 2007

lol true Atleast I've already got the motor together. Just waiting on the turbo kit. Need to sell my vortech only made 475 and 435tq

Daggar · Nov 28, 2007

I would say that you would want the pump with the highest flow and best rated reliability once your power requirements are satisfied.

vristang · Nov 28, 2007

Maybe I've missed something...

You can regulate flow down, but can't regulate flow past the peak capacity... A 35gpm pump will do 35gpm at best, even if you need 40gpm.

A 55gpm pump can be regulated with a good controller to flow 35gpm, or 40gpm, or 55gpm.

It is all about the controller...

5spd GT · Nov 28, 2007

Out of curiosity...

Are we looking at a controller for a fan (DCC) and a seperate controller for the water pump as well? Or can they be "wired" off the same controller?

vristang · Nov 29, 2007

5spd GT said:
Out of curiosity...

Are we looking at a controller for a fan (DCC) and a seperate controller for the water pump as well? Or can they be "wired" off the same controller?

A sound question...

My plan was to run a controller for each, allowing greater flexibility in tuning the cooling temps, fan speeds, power draw, etc.
(I have purchased a DCC for the fan, and one for the e- pump)

Why not run them off one controller
Assuming the controller can handle the current draw...
I don't know if the DCC stuff will though? Anyone? Brian?

Wish I was more knowledgable with electronics....

jason

2Tone5.0 · Nov 29, 2007

Alright i found my replacement alt from Napa.
http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...066&Description=Alternator+-+Remfd+-+Standard

Dont think itll get the job done....

Is there any way to jus take the alt apart and upgrade it without having to buy a whole new one?

Thoughts on electronic water pump over regular performance pump?

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