Thumper heads vs Aftermarket Heads..

speed1972 · Feb 22, 2004

Here's the problem, I'm getting oil in my radiator and I've had an overheating issue for the better part of the last year. It could be a blown head gasket or even a cracked head. I know I could get the stock heads checked, valve job done, etc and probably have about $300 in it. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I might as well step up and buy some thumper heads for a couple hundred more. Now here is the dilemma, should I stop there or maybe even step up to something like Roush 180 or something similar?? I'd appreciate the help on this one.....

TIA, Larry

TIMMY2734 · Feb 22, 2004

depends on the power that your looking to make down the line. Little more info on what you plan to do with the car would be helpful.

speed1972 · Feb 22, 2004

It is a daily driver but I want decent power levels... Someday I'd like to add a power adder and all the goodies but N/A, I'd like it to shoot for around 350hp I suppose.... It'll never be an all out drag car but at the same time, I want to eventually render it to weekend duty so I'm planning for the future on this bill.....Larry

Stump1000 · Feb 22, 2004

just buy a set of small valve aluminum heads. You'll be glad you did. Thumper heads are still stock heads.

speed1972 · Feb 22, 2004

what are some good ones? I'm looking for a good head that isn't going to be crazy expensive... something like maybe the 180 Roush head... I don't know much about the low end heads though. I'm not looking to drop $1200 on a set of AFR's either.... Budget minded if you will

Stump1000 · Feb 22, 2004

I've always heard that Edelbrock Performers are pretty good heads for the money. I think you can get a set of those for around 1000$. If thats too much then maybe you should check on a set of gt40p's. They are a lot better than stock but dont flow what an aluminum head does. Good heads for the money though.

speed1972 · Feb 22, 2004

cool.. thanks, I appreciate the info. anyone else?

Fox Saleen 163 · Feb 22, 2004

I just got a set of Twisted Wedges and installed a TFS stage 1 cam. All I can say is, holy crap!

Grn92LX · Feb 22, 2004

Your on a budget so that rules out a good alum head. I would look for a used GT40 or GT40P head. You need different headers for P heads. Used heads can be had for 300-400 and soemtimes you can find ones with some $ put in them and/or with roller rockers.

90mustangGT · Feb 22, 2004

First of all, I wouldn't make comments about heads that I have no personal knowlege of. If your going to bash Thumper heads or any ported stock head, please tell me you at least a) raced a thumper headed combo b) have had a set c) know in depth why they don't flow.

Yes, aftermarket heads are better, I knew that before I bought Thumper's heads, but budget is an issue for me. One day I will get some aftermarket heads but the only one's I would consider is AFR's. In the long run, you'll be better off saving the extra money and buying the AFR's now. Maby the aftermarket's are better on the hp:$$ ratio, maby they arn't, but this man's on a budget.

The comment, Thumper heads are still stock heads, but then again go out and get some Roush, World or other Iron head doesn't make sence to me. All iron heads start out as chunks of iron. It's what happens next in the machining that effects thier performance. It's the ports and valves, thier shape and size effects velosity and flow, and the more fuel and air can be let in the more power can be made. You want to move as much air as possible into the combustion chamber so there has be a balance between mass and velosity. Anyone who knows anything about science knows this. Yes, Thumper (mike) starts out with a stock head but changes everything about their port characteristics. If you belive that, because they started as stock heads, the air molocules are going to stop and back out, you better contact the head company and be shure that the iron ore they got didn't come from the same mine.

All I hear is how Thumper heads are just junk stock heads, and how my combo is so slow. Well, show me my s*** is so slow. I have been wishing to get someone to show me. I know I'm not the only one with a H/C/I N/A 302 setup in the Atlanta area, and I've raced plenty of cars, not yet pulled on by another n/a Mustang. Loosing just makes me more determined to make mine faster. I don't know many people with Mustangs. I hang out mostly with F-body guys, LT1's and LS1's all modded. I don't have any trouble keeping up, posing a threat, or even pulling away sometimes.

I am kind of outgrowing the heads though. I'm thinking of using part of my tax refund to start a new engine project with lightweight pistons and valve train with some nice AFR heads and custom cam with some high compression, made to revv to 7000+rpm.

92GreenGT · Feb 22, 2004

90mustangGT said:
First of all, I wouldn't make comments about heads that I have no personal knowlege of. If your going to bash Thumper heads or any ported stock head, please tell me you at least a) raced a thumper headed combo b) have had a set c) know in depth why they don't flow.

Yes, aftermarket heads are better, I knew that before I bought Thumper's heads, but budget is an issue for me. One day I will get some aftermarket heads but the only one's I would consider is AFR's. In the long run, you'll be better off saving the extra money and buying the AFR's now. Maby the aftermarket's are better on the hp:$$ ratio, maby they arn't, but this man's on a budget.

The comment, Thumper heads are still stock heads, but then again go out and get some Roush, World or other Iron head doesn't make sence to me. All iron heads start out as chunks of iron. It's what happens next in the machining that effects thier performance. It's the ports and valves, thier shape and size effects velosity and flow, and the more fuel and air can be let in the more power can be made. You want to move as much air as possible into the combustion chamber so there has be a balance between mass and velosity. Anyone who knows anything about science knows this. Yes, Thumper (mike) starts out with a stock head but changes everything about their port characteristics. If you belive that, because they started as stock heads, the air molocules are going to stop and back out, you better contact the head company and be shure that the iron ore they got didn't come from the same mine.

All I hear is how Thumper heads are just junk stock heads, and how my combo is so slow. Well, show me my s*** is so slow. I have been wishing to get someone to show me. I know I'm not the only one with a H/C/I N/A 302 setup in the Atlanta area, and I've raced plenty of cars, not yet pulled on by another n/a Mustang. Loosing just makes me more determined to make mine faster. I don't know many people with Mustangs. I hang out mostly with F-body guys, LT1's and LS1's all modded. I don't have any trouble keeping up, posing a threat, or even pulling away sometimes.

I am kind of outgrowing the heads though. I'm thinking of using part of my tax refund to start a new engine project with lightweight pistons and valve train with some nice AFR heads and custom cam with some high compression, made to revv to 7000+rpm.

I dont think he was dogging the Thumper heads at all when he said that. Jason is a good friend of mine and he knows his stuff, you seem to know your stuff too becuase I see you post a lot. If Jason lived around the Atlanta area he would show you what you want to be showed. That 92 LX he drives in mean as hell, (believe me I know.:damnit: )

My view on your question, I would probably get some GT40P heads. They make good power for the dollar. No matter what anyone says, they are a good head. Their is many things you could do and still be on a budget, just look around at all the different mustang sites and look in the classified areas..you find good deals their.

Damn its late and im tired.:OT:

Dave

90mustangGT · Feb 22, 2004

I didn't mean to flame anyone or did I think anyone was doing any real "bashing"... yet, but we all know how these threads go, somone's going to get out the bat. I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, and I am not, just trying to point out a thing or two. I don't like the "they are just better because they are" with nothing else to back it up. Did you say his dad's 92LX goes 11's all motor? Is it with the 3" stroke? Thats what I am looking for.

I forgot to add... If you can find some GT40's go for it. They won't outflow the thumper's but will make up for it in cost. Definatly a good stock upgrade but make sure they are good. Get some heads that are warped or have a worn out valvetrain, you'll be spending money getting them rebuilt, which will end up costing you more.

92GreenGT · Feb 22, 2004

90mustangGT said:
I didn't mean to flame anyone or did I think anyone was doing any real "bashing"... yet, but we all know how these threads go, somone's going to get out the bat. I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting, and I am not, just trying to point out a thing or two. I don't like the "they are just better because they are" with nothing else to back it up. Did you say his dad's 92LX goes 11's all motor? Is it with the 3" stroke? Thats what I am looking for.

I forgot to add... If you can find some GT40's go for it. They won't outflow the thumper's but will make up for it in cost. Definatly a good stock upgrade but make sure they are good. Get some heads that are warped or have a worn out valvetrain, you'll be spending money getting them rebuilt, which will end up costing you more.

Yes thats with the stock bottom end 302. But anyways, yeah I agree these thread always end up in a damn flame war and they always get closed. I was just making a point, as was you. I never said that Thumpers were junk, and I dont think they are either. But everyone seems to have opinions.

I hate people who act like they know it all when they have no experience with something. Thats why im not going to comment on which head you need and all that.

Really, just do what you can afford and enjoy it...no matter if its up to anyone elses standards or not.

90mustangGT, did you get your alt from PA Performance? Did it come with everything needed to do the upgrade? Thanks man

Dave

thumper460 · Feb 23, 2004

See attached...
'92 5.0 Hatch w/5 speed
Stock GT40s and Turbo
12.70s
PORTED GT40s and no other bolt on made
11.90s

'90 5.0 Hatch w/4 speed Toploader
Stock E7s and stock cam
13.30s
PORTED E7s and B cam installed 2* advanced
12.48 @ 108 mph

'93 LX 5.0 5 speed
stock E7s B cam
13.30
Ported E7s w/1.7s (3.55 gears)4* advanced on Cam
12.80 @ 106 mph

'91 GT AOD 5.0
Ported E7s and AOD w/3500 stall TFS1 Cam 4* advanced
12.90
Edlebrock Performer 5.0 out of the box
12.80
(Example of Ported vs buying)
Porting has always been the way for MORE power form any head!! On the 5.0 Velocity is what makes a killer dual purpose car ( street / strip) !! shift points at 6K or under, and 3.70 gears! Up to the alum heads, if the budget is the main thing , then buy accordingly, or have yours ported!! ( or Port your own). Guys you dont need huge valves and huge ports for a Fun fast street car!! They can get over 400 HP on a 125 CC head ( stock), there are a lot of articles out there on over 400 HP w/pump gas and ported heads... My point is, and has always been, on the 5.0 the HUGE numbers on heads will not be as fun as smaller CC runners and valve sizes ( not to mention the cost differance). There is NO WAY that an Iron Ported Head will compare to the Updated new aftermarket stuff!! that is a given!! but, with the power form a set of ported heads... I would be disapointed if I spent over 1000.00 on a set of heads with no 11 sec time slips!! 12s are well with in reach with Ported E7s or GT40s... add the juice or turbo... and your even faster. and given the cost of the power adders.... it seems good to me to start with a budget head that will put you in the 11s or 10s and still be a kick on the street N/A. But that has been my thoughts all along!! SOOoo... buy what you can afford, and want!! cool?? but dont feel your a looser cause you have to get a set of PORTED heads , or do the porting your self!! bottom line is at the end of the 1340 !! cool?? Hope this helps.

Just me.............................

Thumper

jrichker · Feb 23, 2004

Thumper460's comments about heads that produce power with small port volumes and high port velocities is well said. When you come out of the drive through lane at the toll both doing 35 MPH in 3'rd at 2000 RPM and want the opening in traffic that's closing quickly, stand on it. Do that with an aluminum head with big port volumes and big valves, and you had either better be prepared to downshift to get the revs up or wait for the car accelerate up to 3500 RPM where the big heads start to make more torque. The aluminum heads with the big ports and big valves will make more power, but the power band has shifted upward. This means you have to choose your gear carefully or wait for the car to get up to speed. On a car with 3.55’s, an aluminum head with the big ports and big valves will make it necessary to downshift into second to get 3000 RPM and you’ll soon have second gear wound up past 65MPH speed limit and need to shift again. It’s all in what you want to do with the car and how you drive it. Thumper heads will be a better choice for an everyday driver unless you like to downshift a lot and wind the engine up.

If I wanted to build an engine with aluminum head with the big ports and big valves and not have to wind it up and then do a lot of downshifting to keep it in the power band, I would choose a stroker. A 331 or 347 or better would be the choice since the extra stroke increases the flow velocity and provides more torque at lower RPM’s as well.

Stump1000 · Feb 23, 2004

Dang Thumper.. your 1/4 strip is longer than mine. Haha

anyways, i wasnt bashing stock heads. In my opinion, if im gonna spend money on a set of heads then its not gonna be E7's. I've had plenty of experience with ported stock heads, when i went to unported gt40s and then aluminum holleys and saw the difference between all the different heads i realized what i was missing. He asked an opinion so i gave him mine.

The 92LX has a stock bottom end with stock pistons, rods and crank. It runs 11.70's. It run 12.40s with gt40's and 13.20's with stockers.

Oh yeah, the stock heads were ported, not by thumper. My friend also had a set of e7's that had bigger valves in them and were ported. Didnt run all that great. Just depends on what ya call great. Ofcourse porting them helps, but i dont think they will hang with a gt40.

Stump1000 · Feb 23, 2004

One more thing, 90mustanggt, you talk about racing... you never said what your car run all motor. Just wondering

90mustangGT · Feb 23, 2004

One more thing, 90mustanggt, you talk about racing... you never said what your car run all motor. Just wondering

We all know there is more to HP in an ET. Power is usless unless you can get it to the ground. I am going to buy some tires with my tax refund which is suposed to be here 02/27/04 but we know how the goverment is... anyways I plan on 275/40R17 Nitto 555R's in the back, some new 255's in the front, and hopefully some M/T ET Streets or ET Slicks on my old turbines. Then I can put some of this power to the pavement.

The only track I have run on since it was stock was a good-ole-boy 1/8th mile track I have been told by so many there that everyone runs .2 better elsewhere. Everyone knows the 1/8th is all about launch and traction, and that's something I can't do. My best time was 8.6 at 82mph with a 2.0 60ft. I had to shift softly launching at 1200-1500rpm not able to put the gas all the way down until half way thought second. I watch others there and I think cosidering all this, 8.6 is pretty damn good.

If I can, I plan on visiting a dyno soon, maby this week, then I can post some other numbers.

90mustangGT · Feb 23, 2004

My bad, I forgot one thing. Those times were before the B cam, LT headers, o/r H pipe, 24's, AFPR , 255lph, coil, and module.

PURESTREET5006 · Feb 24, 2004

Man!!! where not going to get into this debate again...Good lord!!!!!!!

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