Time has come to choose cam for 351w project!

ProjectoStang · Nov 26, 2004

Well I finally got all the machine work, pistons, crank, and rods. Its time to choose a cam. I dont really know too much about cam specs and thats why I need your help.

This is what it has/will have:
Scat 9000 Crank
Forged lightweight rods
Forged low comp pistons
Victor Jr Heads
Rockers - need help also
TFS 351w intake
75mm TB -tell me if size is ok
Nitrous-then switch to supercharger or maybe a combo

I want the cam to be aggressive, but not too much. I would also like to hear the sound of the cam idling.

What RR and Cam combination will be good? I plan on making 500+ rwhp?
The nitrous at first will be around a 150-175 shot, then blown I want about 12-16 lbs maybe more LOL!!

zenboy99 · Nov 26, 2004

I would go with a custom cam through Flow tech Induction. When my motor blows I plan on going with a NA 408 with an FTI custom cam.
www.flowtechinduction.com
Just e-mail Ed Curtis there and ask him the same question.

Do you have any port work done to your intake or heads? Or are they out of box?

Joes95GT · Nov 26, 2004

You aren't going to see 500 RWHP unless you get some kind of aggressive camshaft or unless you want to spin the motor. With those heads on a 351, 425 RWHP would be a much more attainable goal.

I like Ed Curtis, too, but I could find a few OTS Comp grinds that will "work".

Joe

zenboy99 · Nov 26, 2004

Are the bore and stroke the same as a stock 351?

DougNuts · Nov 26, 2004

What lift are the springs on the heads good to?

What kind of gas milage are you looking for?

I would go with something in the neighborhood of .56-.58 lift. Lobe seperation angle of 112-114*. For duration I would look for something around 236* with a maybe a little more duration on the exhaust side if you can find it.

Now, my cam knowledge is very limited, so take this information with a grain of salt. I'm just giving a guess as to what would make decent power and still have some driveability. If you're running a stroker, a bigger cam would probably be better.

Joes95GT · Nov 26, 2004

zenboy99 said:
Are the bore and stroke the same as a stock 351?

What do you mean Zen?

Joe

zenboy99 · Nov 26, 2004

He didn't say what cubic inch he was running. I'm sure if he spent all that money rebuilding the motor he would have bored it or maybe put a stroker crank in. Sorry I didn't clarify before.

ProjectoStang · Nov 26, 2004

Its actually going to be the stock stroke, but bored 30 over, so it comes out to like a 357 358. The heads are going to be out of the box for now. They are advertised to flow 500+ out of the box

What are some good OTS cam availabe?
FTI custom cam is another option. I am sure Ed could set me up with what I am looking for.

I was looking for high lift, like .56-.58 like dougnuts suggested. What RR combo should I use 1.6, 1.7?

Will I have any PTV clearance issues?

fivepointNO · Nov 26, 2004

ProjectoStang said:
Its actually going to be the stock stroke, but bored 30 over, so it comes out to like a 357 358. The heads are going to be out of the box for now. They are advertised to flow 500+ out of the box

Say, huh...Wha.....BWAHAHAHAHA! Those heads would be on the "lucky" side if they managed 300cfm on the intake side when stock. 500 won't happen with any amount of mods. Heheheh Sorry, I had to laugh.

I was looking for high lift, like .56-.58 like dougnuts suggested. What RR combo should I use 1.6, 1.7?

With the proper pistons, lift is hardly limited, and certainly not to .5anything. .560-.580 will likely be enough, but I prefer more. If you get a cam in that range, make cure you can run 1.7's and then you can upgrade if you want.

Will I have any PTV clearance issues?

That depends on the pistons and cam and valve size. You need to check that yourself. We can re-assure you all day, but there's really only 1 way to be sure. Test the combo. Good luck with it.

Joes95GT · Nov 26, 2004

I think you meant that the heads are advertised as making 500 horsepower. Any cylinder head could make 500 horsepower if the CID is large enough, the powerband is high enough, and the cam is wild enough. Don't put faith into those numbers.

As far as I know, firing orders for 351W motors from 69-95 are the same as the 5.0 HO motors. I believe (because they're both Windsor motors) that they used the size cam tunnels as well. If that's the case, then a 5.0 HO cam would work. If that is possible, I'd use the XE282HR...

Advertised Duration: 282/290
Duration @ 0.050": 232/240
Lift w/ 1.6 rocker: .565/.574
LSA: 112(+4) - 108 ICL/116 ECL

I personally would put a 1.7 on the intake side because I feel that the split between the two sides is too much. With a 1.7 on the intake side, you would be right at .600" lift. This would make up for lost duration on the intake side.

Installed straight up, I think the cam would kick ass in a street car. It might give up a little once you get to 6000 RPM though. I would consider retarding it 2* back to a 110 ICL.

Just me blabbing....

Joe

fivepointNO · Nov 26, 2004

The 5.0 HO and 351W share the same firing order because in 1982, Ford decided to use the 351W camshaft in the 5.0L engine, making it an "HO" I'd think there were other slight changes, but that's a nutshell of it. The 302 isn't technically a "W" block.

I agree that cam is a good one for a 351W, no matter what the build level otherwise. Of course, good heads would be desired along with proper P-V clearance checked. I'd prefer 1.7's on both sides though, as the duration is good IMO and I prefer more lift whenever possible. My install would prolly be 4* retarded w/o a power adder and maybe even with one.

94TURBO5 O · Nov 26, 2004

Good info here guys so I'm subscribing.
I need some schooling on this as well.

94TURBO5 O · Nov 26, 2004

I got this link in another thread

http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/351.html

Joes95GT · Nov 26, 2004

fivepointNO said:
I prefer more lift whenever possible.

YES! I'm on a lift kick now...

fivepointNO said:
My install would prolly be 4* retarded w/o a power adder and maybe even with one.

I thought about that, but he never gave the original intentions of the car. That cam, straight up, will be an absolute monster up until 5500. 2* back may give him until 6000. I don't know how brave he wants to get.

The head will become the limiting factor because the bottom end has the potential for 7500 RPM. Piston speeds are going to take over and the heads will soon become "too small". It seems that an "out-the-box" set of Vic Jrs. run out of steam around 3700-3800 ft/min piston speed. That's 7500 RPM in a 302. That's only 6500 RPM in a 351. No sense in degreeing too far back if the heads won't keep up. Cam timing will band-aid it to a certain extent, but there is no sense in running 8* retard or something crazy like that.

Overall, I do agree with you though.

Joe

ProjectoStang · Nov 28, 2004

What I meant was advertised 500+hp out of the box, not cfm.

The car is going to be a street/strip car, but I want it to be aggressive.
XE282HR sounds like a good cam, when its broken in I want to use all its potential. Not just crap out at like 5500. It is a roller cam correct?

If those heads become too small, then would you recommend getting other heads? And how would retarding it any degree give me more RPM? Can you explain to me how to calculate cam + RR lift?

The Pistons are dished, but it like you guys said it depends on other things for PTV clearance.

Joes95GT · Nov 28, 2004

Most of the time, general OTS cams only provide for a certain RPM range (eg. 2500-6500). There are limitations to the operating range of a camshaft, however a custom could give you much more. If you plan to spin it to 7000, I would go custom. They will make the cam so that the cylinder heads don't become "too small" at high piston speeds and they will give you low-speed driveability even if the operating range of the cam is 7000 RPM - something an OTS cam probably won't do.

Yes, the XE282HR is a hydraulic roller - hence the HR at the end. Are you going to use a flat tappet cam or are you going to have the block converted to a roller or is it already a roller block?

Calculating lift with different rockers is easy.

(Lift with 1.6 rockers * 1.7) / 1.6 = Lift w/ 1.7 rockers.

(.565 * 1.7) / 1.6 = .600

Joe

ProjectoStang · Nov 28, 2004

It is converted to roller. thanks joe for the great info. I am going to email Ed and ask him what he thinks, and what he can do for me.

Time has come to choose cam for 351w project!

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