Timing Questions

1/4 Mile Style

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#1

• Dec 11, 2009

• #1

So Iv been told the stock timing for a 5.0 is 10* @ idle. As I understand it, the timing should advance as the RPMs increase, usually around 25*, and should not total more than about 40-42*.

We dropped the dizzy in yesterday just to where we could get it running. Didnt have a light at the time. Ive driven the car several times now since yesterday afternoon and it seems to run really smooth with no misses, but I havent taken it above about 3,5k.

So I check the timing tonight and its at about 18-19* adv. I was told to rev the motor to about 3k to check total adv. My issue it doesnt look like its advancing at all, maybe 1-2* if any. Basically its pretty close to 20* whether its idling or reving.


Before I ask for suggestions, the air cleaner is pretty snug against the plate that holds down the wires on a MSD. Is it possible that the cleaner could be preventing the dizzy from turning???


And other ideas????


TIA, Jon

 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

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#2

• Dec 11, 2009

• #2

Base timing is 10*. Basically that means if you pull the spout out and check the timing, it should be at 10 degrees and not move throughout the entire RPM range.

Once you plug the SPOUT connector back in, now the computer is free to advance the timing. I forget the numbers, but it will vary with RPM and load.

but only with the SPOUT pulled out will the timing stay stationary and not advance

 

1/4 Mile Style

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#3

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IDK what the "Spout" is but theres no "computer" in this car. As far as I know the only thing controling the ignition is the 6AL, MSD dizzy & coil???? I can take a pic of the bay if that would help...

Also, this dizzy has been "locked" or "welded"??? If that makes any difference. Ive been explained from a couple of different people what thats supposed to mean but am still not really clear...

 

1/4 Mile Style

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Also, the timing is NOT supposed to adv through the RPMs??? I was told exactly the opposite and when explained it made sense????

Thanks a bunch for the response....



Jon

 

1/4 Mile Style

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Anyone else????

 

lancec2c30

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#6

• Dec 12, 2009

• #6

Your car has been converted to a carb setup?

If so, then there won't be a spout connector. I honestly don't know how the timing advance would work on your car. If there is no vacuum advance on the distributor.

 

2

2 Foxes

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#7

• Dec 12, 2009

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If the distributor has been locked as you said , it will not advance beyond what it has been locked at
Is this a race application , or street ?

 

1/4 Mile Style

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#8

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Yeah I called a couple of people this morning. Basically the first bit of advice I got apparently was for a completely stock EFI motor.

There is no vaccum adv on this dizzy cauze its been "locked". So from my understanding wherever I tighten down the dizzy at is where it will stay whether @ idle or being revved.

I backed it down to 10* this morning before I found this out, and took it up the street. It was waay down on power verses the last couple of of days @ about 20*.

So basically I need to set it wherever I want the total timing to be at. I was told 30* would be a good place to start so Im gonna try that in a bit...


Does any of this sound right to anyone who knows more than I do lol???

 

lancec2c30

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#9

• Dec 12, 2009

• #9

Having your distributor timing locked does put you at a bit of a disadvantage.

Because you can only set your timing as far as your fuel will let you. Make sure you don't have any signs of detonation once you start advancing it.

EDIT: Another thing to look into is what kind of timing curve adjustment you can do on the 6AL.

 

1/4 Mile Style

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#10

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So you think 30* may be too high?

Going by the stock calc if I did have a dizzy that would adv 10* @ idle, then adv 20-25* RPM that would be 30-35* total, right?

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Mustang5L5

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#11

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• #11

1/4 Mile Style said:

IDK what the "Spout" is but theres no "computer" in this car. As far as I know the only thing controling the ignition is the 6AL, MSD dizzy & coil???? I can take a pic of the bay if that would help....

Click to expand...

Prob really would have helped to mention that in the first post. I assumed you had an EFI '86 GT.


Might want to look into changing it out for a Vacuum advance dizzy though

 

1/4 Mile Style

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#12

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Holley 600dp = Carb


So whats the big deal with a locked dizzy?? From a performance standpoint it looks like it would be nice. From my understanding the main thing youre looking at is total timing. I was told by a Ford mechanic a stock EFI 5.0 should adv 20-25* @ RPM. Is this not accurate?? If 30-35* is what a completely stock motor should be set at, and mine isnt exactly "stock", I would think 30* would be plenty safe?? I was also told by this same mech that 40-42* would be like "the rev limiter" as far as what you would want to see. Basically the max. Again, going off this 30* seems plenty safe??

Its already been run @ basically 20* for the last 2 days and thats seems decent as far as power goes. Im def thinking closer to 30* is prolly where it should now that Ive seen what 10* & 20* feels like (just goin by sotp & listening to how everything sounds).


Please school me Im trying to learn here...


Thanks again, Jon

 

Tanus

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A to the Z

Dec 12, 2009

#13

• Dec 12, 2009

• #13

what kind of distributer do you have? tfi? vacuum advance? centrificle? post a pic if your not sure.

 

lancec2c30

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#14

• Dec 12, 2009

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From the sounds of it, it is just a stock TFI dist. that is locked out.

 

1/4 Mile Style

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#15

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• #15

Its a Ford Motorsport dizzy with an MSD cap & guts, MSD coil, & 6AL. Theres no vacc adv & its locked.

I drove it out to dinner tonight @ 30* total and it did fine. Drove it around normal and it did fine. On the way home I got on it through 3rd from a dead stop & its got plenty of power & the throttle response is great. No signs of det all from what I could tell...

I have a feeling it could probably go another 5* at least no problem but for now Ima leave it where its at...



Thanks, Jon

 

liljoe07

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Dec 13, 2009

#16

• Dec 13, 2009

• #16

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Other than maybe needing a start retard for the timing. There realy is no dis-advantage to locked out timing for a strip application. On a more DD friendly setup, you need a vacuum advance. Otherwise you'll be complaining about being soggy down low because of the seat of the pants feel.