toploader 4 spd.

daddy oth · Aug 26, 2007

my cousin has toploader 4spd. out off his '69 mach1 and he want to trade for my weld draglite.it does not come with bell housing,my question is will the housing from '66 I-6 3spd.fit the 4 spd. and will the 3 spd. housing from I-6 fit 289-302. i want to convert my '66 coupe to manual tranny. thank you in advance

thumper460 · Aug 26, 2007

YES.. the bell housings from the 6cyl will interchange cool??

Just me.........................................

Thumper

rbohm · Aug 26, 2007

daddy oth said:
my cousin has toploader 4spd. out off his '69 mach1 and he want to trade for my weld draglite.it does not come with bell housing,my question is will the housing from '66 I-6 3spd.fit the 4 spd. and will the 3 spd. housing from I-6 fit 289-302. i want to convert my '66 coupe to manual tranny. thank you in advance

first the 66 bellhousing is set up to fit the 2.77 3spd, and the top loader will not bolt to that bellhousing. you can get an adaptor plate that will allow you to use the top loader with the 2.77 bell though. it is the same adaptor plate as for swapping the 3.03 spd in place of the 2.77

second the six cylinder bell will not fit the 289/302 block as the bell is too small. you will need a V8 bellhousing. and the 2.77 3spd would be shredded behind the 289/302 even in stock form. the 2.77 is barely adequate behind the 144 inline six.

dennis112 · Aug 27, 2007

rbohm said:
first the 66 bellhousing is set up to fit the 2.77 3spd, and the top loader will not bolt to that bellhousing. you can get an adaptor plate that will allow you to use the top loader with the 2.77 bell though. it is the same adaptor plate as for swapping the 3.03 spd in place of the 2.77

second the six cylinder bell will not fit the 289/302 block as the bell is too small. you will need a V8 bellhousing. and the 2.77 3spd would be shredded behind the 289/302 even in stock form. the 2.77 is barely adequate behind the 144 inline six.

I second rbohms response. It is spot on.

A 67' and newer I6 bellhousing behind a 200ci motor will also allow you to swap the 4 speed onto your 66. I used to use a lot of these from Mustangs, Mavericks and Comets.

Don't even consider using the 6 cylinder 3 speed behind the V8. It is a waste of time as the early transmissions are quite weak.

Blu-Steel · Aug 27, 2007

I did the same swap 20 years ago with my I6 66 3speed Mustang. I read an article in Mustang Monthly (I think May 86 issue, I still have it in my stash somewhere) and it listed the parts and showed how to do it. It was an easy swap. All I had to do was buy a V8 Bellhousing, clutch, pilot bearing and throw out bearing (always good to replace those for insurance) and of course the Toploader and shifter. I can't recall for sure but I think I needed a longer yoke; I can dig out the article and e-mail it to you if you like to be sure. It made a huge difference in how thecar drove and I really liked it. So much so that now I have a 66 V8 Mustand with a 3 speed that am in the process to switching to a Toploader 4 speed right now.

rbohm · Aug 27, 2007

the only sixes the V8 bell housing will bolt to is the 250 small six, and the 240/300 big six. it will not fit the 144-200 six, except for the 1981 and later 3.3L six with the low mount starter, and even then only 4 of the 6 bolts match up. as dennis pointed out the 67 and later small six bell housing is what is needed to fit the 9 bolt top loader trannies.

Blu-Steel · Aug 27, 2007

rbohm said:
the only sixes the V8 bell housing will bolt to is the 250 small six, and the 240/300 big six. it will not fit the 144-200 six, except for the 1981 and later 3.3L six with the low mount starter, and even then only 4 of the 6 bolts match up. as dennis pointed out the 67 and later small six bell housing is what is needed to fit the 9 bolt top loader trannies.

Actually I'm not sure that is quite accurate. I once performed that swap following the 1986 Mustang Monthly article. I believe the six bolt pattern for a 66 I6 is the same six bolt pattern for the 289, which is why the C4 transmission bellhousing is the same for both. But you may be right that a 67 V8 or later bell housing needs to be used; I'll dig up the article, find out for sure and follow up on this post. All I know is that I did the swap 20 years ago and whatever parts I used worked perfectly. I may have used a 67 V8 bell housing though, I can't remember off the top of my head.

rbohm · Aug 27, 2007

blu-steel, believe what you want, i only have the engines in question(2 170 inline sixes, a 250 inline six, a 289 6 bolt and a 351w), and i can tell you that the bellhousings interchange between the 250/289 and 351w, but they will not fit the 170's, which are the same as the 200. you are more than welcome to stop by my house and prove me wrong of course, though i doubt you will.

or if you would like more verification of what i have said, stop by the tech page and the forums of www.fordsix.com at your leisure.

by the way, the easiest and best way to swap the 9 bolt top loader transmissions behind the 2.77 equiped six is to use the adaptor plate, rather than search up the needed bellhousing.

one more thing, rather than swap the top loader transmission behind the six, you can get the adaptor kit to swap a T5 instead. that way you get a deeper first gear, and an overdrive. and trust me both will be a big help. the nice thing is that you can use the 4 cylinder T5 with its even deeper first gear with no problem.

Blu-Steel · Aug 27, 2007

rbohm - hey, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong, no need to get condescending. As I said, I'd dig up the old article and verify the facts and follow up. So I was wrong. The article said use a 1967 and up 200 CID six cylinder bell housing, which is what I must have used since I followed the instructions exactly. Heck, that was 20 years ago, good thing I keep my back issues. I also agree that your suggestion to use a 5 speed instead would be good since the parts are easily available and the improvement will be really noticeable, especially if the car is driven frequently. But I’m sure cost is always an issue and if daddy oth already has a Toploader then that may be the best cost effective way to go. I’m swapping in a Toploader on my 66 V8 3 speed because I’m keeping my car period correct, if not absolutely correct as delivered. I don’t drive it much and use it for shows, cruise ins and drive it to work on good days. I drive my 07 GT/CS daily, so I get the best of both worlds. If anyone needs it, I have the article scanned and can e-mail it to you. daddy oth - good luck with your project.

rbohm · Aug 28, 2007

Blu-Steel said:
rbohm - hey, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong, no need to get condescending.

sorry about that, sometimes i get that way when dealing with trying to deal with people who are misinformed, and pig headed at the same time. and yesterday wasnt the best of days for me.

by the way i dont mean you in that.

daddy oth · Aug 28, 2007

i like to thanks everyone here for their useful info.

man...when i think about it.it would be a pita. run around town try to find the right parts or spending hours surfing the web plus that tranny needs overhaul i might want to stick with c-4 for right now.

D.Hearne · Aug 28, 2007

Toploaders are cheap and easy to rebuild. You can do it yourself. This is one source for rebuild kits: www.4speedtoploaders.com He's got anything you need for them, including building completely new Toploaders.

Blu-Steel · Sep 1, 2007

rbohm - No problem. I hate it too when people give out bad info; especially when I do it! I was out of town the past few days and just got back to the forum. daddy oth - Top Loaders are indeed great transmissions, easy to rebuild, and just about bullet proof, but it really comes down to how you drive your car and what your plans are for it. If you are planning to drive it a lot, especially on the highway, you may just want to sell your Top Loader and go for a T-5 five speed as rbohm suggested. That would really make your 6 cyl a lot more fun to drive and help out with gas milage as well. Either way, stepping up to a 4 or 5 speed will be a huge improvement over the 3 speed.

daddy oth · Sep 12, 2007

a toploader in '66 coupe instead of using clutch linkage can it be convert to cable type like the t-5 'cause the engine('92 5.0) in the car doesn't have the hole for use of "Z" bar or should i go with t-5 set-up or stick with c-4?

D.Hearne · Sep 12, 2007

Many of the classic Mustang vendors sell a bracket that fixes the lack of the pivot hole in the later blocks, this bolts onto the bell housing. Check it out.

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