Toploader swap questions

BDT 1967 · Jan 31, 2006

Hello I have a 1967 Mustang with the factory 289 and a three speed manual, I have elected to purchase a 4 speed for this car, I know that I need a wide ratio, 28 spline transmission. I have found a HEH-AR after looking up the numbers I found out that this Trans came from a falcon with a 390. My question is will the tail housing and the bell housing work on my car, and is there anything that I would need to get to make this one work, such as bushings or some kind of adapter. Any way all help is appreciated talk to you later.

BDT 1967 · Jan 31, 2006

Got any ideas.

dennis112 · Jan 31, 2006

From http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/idchart1.htm

HEH-AR
1966 Fairlane
390
wide
28-spline

Won't be a direct replacement for your Mustang.

I can tell you that the 390 input shaft is shorter than one needed for a small block, but that, like everything else, can be changed.

Although, throughout the years, cases and other parts get replaced and things get mis-matched. Tell us the overall length of the transmission, or the tailshaft, and the location of the mounting points for the shifter and we can help you more.

BDT 1967 · Jan 31, 2006

Thanks I dont for sure the specs I can only go by what this guy is saying http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...33733QQitemZ8033519920QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

This just may not be a good deal, I probably need to keep looking

BDT 1967 · Jan 31, 2006

I dont know what the exact specs on this trans are but he gave some deminsions

THE TAIL CASE IS 14" LONG WITH A 28 SPLINE SHAFT
# MAIN CASE O5AA-7006-D-W-I
# TAIL CASE C60R-7A040-C

He also said it has a 302 bell housing, I dont know if that means the shaft was changed or not. He is being kinda shady with me and its leading me to think that this is not a good deal and I should just keep looking.

KillerKittyCat · Jan 31, 2006

NO!!!
289 is small shaft
390 is large shaft.

DIAMETER!

Mongo316 · Jan 31, 2006

I just did the exact same swap, but i replaced my three speed with a small block 4 speed. I used all the parts from the three speed minus the shifter and speedo cable (4 speed needs a longer cable). It really went easier then I thought BTW i get rubber in second with out any sweat!

Cheers Mario

dennis112 · Jan 31, 2006

KillerKittyCat said:
NO!!!
289 is small shaft
390 is large shaft.

DIAMETER!

Wrong!!!!!!!!!

The 427, 428, Boss 429's had large diameter input shafts (and 31 spline output shafts), but the 390 has a smaller, more normal diameter small input shaft, but it is shorter than a SBF. The actual area that is shorter is the part that goes into the input shaft. I have had several 390 and 302 (plus a 429CJ) Toploader transmissions over my 33 years of running Mustangs and know the difference when I see it.

Anywhays, see http://www.5speeds.com/toploader.html and http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=184 and several other sites for the info on shaft diameter.

The C60R-7A040-C tailshaft is correct for a Mustang so you are good to go there (again found on the site I referenced earlier.)

The only remaining issue would be the input shaft. The small block shaft for a SBF has a 1 1/8" length pilot bearing shaft length (shank) and the big block (all) have a 3/4" pilot input shaft length (again from David Kee Toploaders.) You can use a cutoff tool and grinder to make a sbf input fit a big block, but science hasn't perfected a way to make the big block Ford input shaft any longer.

It is possible to acquire one from a SBF to replace the 390 one because they are other wise the same, but unforunately it requires that a fair amount of the tranny be disassembled. Another, less desireable way is to purchase a "step" pilot bushing from a mid-70's pickup. It is longer than a normal pilot bearing and is able to capture the shorter input shaft. I don't recommend this approach though.

BDT 1967 · Feb 1, 2006

I am just going to let this trans go. I have the rest of the winter to find one that fits just right, no need to rush the process. If any of you have any leads to a trans that would work for this car let me know, If you would like any more information on the car just ask me or go to my site. There is lots of info on there. Thanks for the money saving replies this place rocks :SNSign:

D.Hearne · Feb 1, 2006

dennis112 said:
Wrong!!!!!!!!!

The 427, 428, Boss 429's had large diameter input shafts (and 31 spline output shafts), but the 390 has a smaller, more normal diameter small input shaft, but it is shorter than a SBF. The actual area that is shorter is the part that goes into the input shaft. I have had several 390 and 302 (plus a 429CJ) Toploader transmissions over my 33 years of running Mustangs and know the difference when I see it.

Anywhays, see http://www.5speeds.com/toploader.html and http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=184 and several other sites for the info on shaft diameter.

The C60R-7A040-C tailshaft is correct for a Mustang so you are good to go there (again found on the site I referenced earlier.)

The only remaining issue would be the input shaft. The small block shaft for a SBF has a 1 1/8" length pilot bearing shaft length (shank) and the big block (all) have a 3/4" pilot input shaft length (again from David Kee Toploaders.) You can use a cutoff tool and grinder to make a sbf input fit a big block, but science hasn't perfected a way to make the big block Ford input shaft any longer.

It is possible to acquire one from a SBF to replace the 390 one because they are other wise the same, but unforunately it requires that a fair amount of the tranny be disassembled. Another, less desireable way is to purchase a "step" pilot bushing from a mid-70's pickup. It is longer than a normal pilot bearing and is able to capture the shorter input shaft. I don't recommend this approach though.

Once again, Dennis has it right. The 390 specific Toploaders had small inputs with a shorter front snout. Using one with a small block bell, or an FE bell from a pickup, will result in the input not reaching into the pilot bearing. This leaves it unsupported and will eventually break the input bearing, if not the 4th gear incorporated into the input shaft. Ask me how I know

dennis112 · Feb 1, 2006

D.Hearne said:
Ask me how I know

Yeah, I my learned my lesson the hard way too, but instead of screwing up the input shaft, I trashed the case and the front of the tailshaft. A very expensive lesson.

D.Hearne · Feb 1, 2006

I went thru two Toploaders before I realized something wasn't right. I'd replaced the original bell on my 67 390 Stang ( it had cracked) and used a pickup FE bell in it's place. Both times it broke the input bearing after a month or so. With the 3rd Toploader, I installed the bell without the clutch assembly and then stabbed the Toploader in and saw first hand why the input bearings broke. the input came right up to the pilot bearing, but not into it. Everytime I shifted, the input was hangin out in space.

BDT 1967 · Feb 1, 2006

Alright I found another trans. This one came out of a Falcon 289 but he said that he had it in a 69 mustang. My question is will this one fit, The Tag reads RUG D 2 Below that is 017387. The case has C8AR 7006-D W A. This is a 10 spline input and the rear spline is 28. The tail shaft reads C4ZR7AO4O-A Does this tail shaft housing work with the 67 stangs. Remember I have a 289. Not a 302

dennis112 · Feb 1, 2006

BDT 1967 said:
Alright I found another trans. This one came out of a Falcon 289 but he said that he had it in a 69 mustang. My question is will this one fit, The Tag reads RUG D 2 Below that is 017387. The case has C8AR 7006-D W A. This is a 10 spline input and the rear spline is 28. The tail shaft reads C4ZR7AO4O-A Does this tail shaft housing work with the 67 stangs. Remember I have a 289. Not a 302

Rug D 2 1968 Fairlane,Falcon 289,302 wide ratio

The tailshaft housing is correct for a mustang so you probably have a winner.

As a side note, any tranny that will fit a 302, or 351 will also fit your 67' 289. 10 spline input and 28 spline output are also correct for your purposes.

BDT 1967 · Feb 1, 2006

SWEET

D.Hearne · Feb 2, 2006

For more detailed info on Toploaders and their tailhousings ( he's got a picture chart there) go to www.4speedToploaders.com This is David Kee's website for his business. he builds and rebuilds them from the ground up.

BDT 1967 · Feb 2, 2006

Hey thanks I will bookmark that link, looks like he knows what he is talking about.

Toploader swap questions

BDT 1967

Member

BDT 1967

Member

dennis112

BDT 1967

Member

BDT 1967

Member

KillerKittyCat

New Member

Mongo316

New Member

dennis112

BDT 1967

Member

D.Hearne

New Member

dennis112

D.Hearne

New Member

BDT 1967

Member

dennis112

BDT 1967

Member

D.Hearne

New Member

BDT 1967

Member

Similar threads

Toploader swap questions

Member

Member

Member

Member

New Member

New Member

Member

New Member

New Member

Member

Member

New Member

Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency