Dark Knight GT said:BTW, do you even drive a Mustang ?
It was an honest question. I didn't see a Mustang listed in his signature, or a T-bird for that matter. Seen something about a Mercury Cougar though.svttech76 said:not tring too jump ino sombodys arguement.. but i hate BS like this.. so what he owns a t-bird with the same drivetrain.. just in a heavier body... belive it or not there is people out there who dont have a mustang that know more than you do about mustangs.. for example i know a guy at my work who is very knowledgable on stangs but he don't own one right now.. who cares what you own.. signing a purchase and sales agreement dont make you a expert.
ok i am a guru on green 01 gt's now because i drive one when it's not snowing.. ( right now it's snowing so i am a 95 ****box taurus guru untill the winters over)
You should know better than to ask that last question. Every one of these guys basically have a hard on for Circle D specialties and Alan's torque converters. Honestly, I'm not bashing either of their torque converters, but it seems to me they've all made it a hobby of bashing every other company out there, including PI. I know no one in this specific thread has bashed PI, but I watched Alan do it numerous times over at Modular Depot. I guess you can either sell your customer on your product, or bash the other guy(s) product. I think it's clear which route they've taken.stonegod85 said:for a once a month track car/ daily driver that is staying N/A with 240 rwhp and (at most in the future) 315 rwhp, i think that either converter i got with whether it's pi, tci, or edge...they'd all do just fine and withstand my driving habits. you guys agree on that?
Not any more I don't, but so what? I've owned 4 of them in the past of all configurations and my current vehicle which you are correct, is a Mercury Cougar has the exact same 4.6L engine (save for the built short block, heavily ported PI heads and Eaton based supercharger mounted on top…..of which I built and/or modified myself) and 4R70W backed power train that the late model SN95's do and is putting about 75-100+rwhp more to the ground than most of the Stangs in this forum are. I've also owned, built or help build several 302/351 powered Rangers and Bronco II's in both 2WD and 4WD drive trains that were backed by both 5-speed and AOD configuration, as well as a sweet little 5.0HO EFI swap into a mid-80's Jeep Cherokee. I'm currently fabbing up a new custom intercooling system for my Cougar, since I wasn’t fully satisfied with capabilities of the unit that came equipped with my blower kit and on the side I’m working a set of heavily modified E7TE heads for a buddy of mine, for his 351W powered twin-turbo '82 Mustang GT.Dark Knight GT said:BTW, do you even drive a Mustang ?
It's not that I have a "hard on" for Alan (Dirty Dog) or Circle D transmissions. I checked them all out before I bought the one I have now and was actually contemplating the Edge converter myself until researching things a little further. As a matter of fact, I spoke with Alan first before I made the purchase and he recommended Circle D to me, a company that he doesn't even work for, nor does he make any money from a sale. Alan himself has built over 7,000 converters and I have yet to see anyone who knows more about the subject than he does. So when he speaks, people tend to listen. I never made any qualms about Edge, TCI's, or PI converters, in regards to their initial performance, it's the chosen method and cut corners in which their performance is obtained that will cause durability issues over time and what turned me off of their product. I have heard people complain about Edge converters in the past. The reason you don't hear many Mustang owners complaining about them, is because they cater mainly to the GM crowd and very few Blue Oval faithfuls use them.Dark Knight GT said:You should know better than to ask that last question. Every one of these guys basically have a hard on for Circle D specialties and Alan's torque converters. Honestly, I'm not bashing either of their torque converters, but it seems to me they've all made it a hobby of bashing every other company out there, including PI. I know no one in this specific thread has bashed PI, but I watched Alan do it numerous times over at Modular Depot. I guess you can either sell your customer on your product, or bash the other guy(s) product. I think it's clear which route they've taken.
Anyhow, I don't know of anyone who owns a Edge Racing converter ever complaining about it. It's not because no one owns a Edge Racing converter either. If you don't believe me, do a search, and you'll see multiple owners of them. There was even a guy over at MD who claimed he knocked .60 off his 1/4 mile time with an Edge Racing converter over the stock unit. He was driving a v6 Mustang with a 4r70w, but he was still making around 250rwhp. Does that mean he won't have problems with the Edge racing converter in the future ? Not sure. He very well might. Same thing can be said about any product on the market.
.....and the other .01% of the time, I don't have a f***ing clue.Kilgore Trout said:The only point I would make in this thread is that 99.99% of the time Greabanger101 and svttech76 know exactly what they are talking about...
Gearbanger 101 said:.....and the other .01% of the time, I don't have a f***ing clue.
Dark Knight GT said:It was an honest question. I didn't see a Mustang listed in his signature, or a T-bird for that matter. Seen something about a Mercury Cougar though.
If you read my above post, you will get your answer. It's an honest question.Gearbanger 101 said:So were you just curious, or were you just checking to see if I was capable of answering the question?
I've seen many mentions of Edge converters on the Mustang boards whenever I do a search. I never seen any complaints either.Gearbanger101 said:The reason you don't hear many Mustang owners complaining about them, is because they cater mainly to the GM crowd and very few Blue Oval faithfuls use them.
Again, see my previous posts. I never said anyone wasn't pleased with their torque converters from Circle D specialties or Alan. I never bashed their produts either.Gearbanger101 said:Let me ask you this while we're on the subject. When have you ever heard of someone who wasn't satisfied, or better yet blown away by the performance and durability of one of Alans or Circle D's converters? It's funny that every time you hear someone talking about/praising one of their converters, it's always happens to be after they've run and were left unsatisfied with one of the other above mentioned units from EDGE, TCI, PI, etc, etc first!
auto02 said:well, my first converter purchase was a tc from dirtydog.a 3500 which left me with slower 60' times than my stock converter.i was running 9.10's and 9.20's on et streets with alan's tc with a best 60' of 2.10.i put back in my stock tc and ran consistent 8.90's with my 60' in the 2.0's.this has been in the last month(damn i'm tired of pulling the tranny and putting it back)this week i put in a pi 3200 and in hotter temps(70's here in south georgia)ran consistent 8.60's with a best 60' of 1.88. so to hell with the rest,dark knight gt let them figure it out the hardway like i did.one of my friends also bought one of those tc's and has now ordered a pi for himself !!!!! these were all 1/8 mile times.
I think you're a little confused. I never bashed the PI units. In fact, I even stated I'm using one as we speak, just I'm having to have it pulled and rebuilt cause the clutch material is crap, and its slipping now. Nothing is wrong with the PI converters that I can see other than they use bad linings. Again, once they they start using high carbon friction linings, they'll be fine. As for me "liking" Edge, I didn't say I "like" their units, I'm just defending them cause I'm tired of hearing people who have no experience with the product personally turn around, and bash it like they've been screwed by the company.svttech76 said:i think your a little confused... gearbanger is the one telling people the PI is better.. dark knight likes the edge converters.. personally i know NOTHING of the edge converters so i am staying out of this..
So you went slower with Alan's converter. Can you 100% say that it was the fault of the converter itself, or could their be other issues (track conditions, traction issues, inconsistent driving, air temperature, miscalculations on your end with regards to the power levels or other specifications of your vehicle, etc, etc) that contributed to your poor times? To tell you the truth, it sounds to me like your slower 60ft and 1/8th mile times may have been a result of poor traction, but since I really don't know anything about your car, or much more than you're telling me about the particular situation, I won't speculate any further? There are always two sides to every story and it wouldn't be fair of me to make a judgement call based on just one.auto02 said:well, my first converter purchase was a tc from dirtydog.a 3500 which left me with slower 60' times than my stock converter.i was running 9.10's and 9.20's on et streets with alan's tc with a best 60' of 2.10.i put back in my stock tc and ran consistent 8.90's with my 60' in the 2.0's.this has been in the last month(damn i'm tired of pulling the tranny and putting it back)this week i put in a pi 3200 and in hotter temps(70's here in south georgia)ran consistent 8.60's with a best 60' of 1.88. so to hell with the rest,dark knight gt let them figure it out the hardway like i did.one of my friends also bought one of those tc's and has now ordered a pi for himself !!!!! these were all 1/8 mile times.
I think you weren't paying too close of attention to what he said. He said with Alan's torque converter, he was running slower 60ft times, and was running consistant 9.10's to 9.20's. He then put the stock converter back in and started running 8.90's. He did this with ET street slicks, so I don't think traction was that big of an issue. Then, he put the PI 3200 stall unit in, and even with hotter temperatures, he ran 8.60's. If one were to look at that without keeping an open mind for other possibilities, it would seem as if Alan's converter was the problem, but as you said, other factors could be involved, and it's possible he didn't talk enough with Alan to get the right TC for his application.Gearbanger 101 said:To tell you the truth, it sounds to me like your slower 60ft and 1/8th mile times may have been a result of poor traction
Have you ever opened up one of Alan's converters, just to make sure that what he says is in there is really in there ? After all, you don't know what is really inside unless if you built it yourself, watched the builder build it, or you've opened it up to see what is inside. It's just a question.Gearbanger101 said:He's very candid about how he builds them, the methods and materials he uses and doesn't use and his reasons for doing so.
Honestly, I don't see where must "customizing" is needed in a torque converter unit, aside from Stall speed, clutch disk setup, and bolt patterns ? Seriously, I think most of us want a unit that is durable, and that will give us good performance at the same time. The one thing I can say about Edge Racing, is they actually recommend a 9.5in series torque converter, which weighs around 30lbs, compared to the stock unit that weighs around 45lbs. You do the math on that part. Not only that, but they actually put a wide high carbon friction lining in their converters, which is 150% stronger than a 3disk kevlar setup. In fact, it's more expensive to put the high carbon friction lining in there, than it is to put 3 kevlar disks in there.Gearbanger101 said:And from a performance aspect, it's much the same as picking a proper camshaft. You could go with an off the shelf grind and it may work well, in comparison to your stocker but if you want the absolute best performance for your dollar, it's always better to go with a properly matched, custom unit.
Thats interesting. Edge Racing actually puts a 1 year warranty on their torque converters too, and they also offer a money back guarantee if you can find another torque converter that will give you faster times. I wonder if Circle D or Alan are willing to do the same on that last part. Just making a point.Gearbanger101 said:But Circle D was confident that this unit would hold up and backed it with a solid 1-year warrant.
The same thing could be said about WCC or Edge Racing. Both of the guys who work there are very friendly, and willing to go over every single question you may have regarding a torque converter purchase. Hell, I talked with Andre at Edge Racing for over an hour about torque converter applications. I know that Chris at Cirlce D is a good guy to talk to, as I called him and talked to him once before. I'm just making the point that while Dirty Dog and Circle D might be good with customer service, the same can be said for Edge Racing and WCC.Gearbanger101 said:Dirty Dog and I exchanged many Email conversations that were full of questions about cost and quality and methods of attaining the best of both before he directed me to Circle D. And Chris (Circle D) and I exchanged many phone calls back and forth....a lot of which were on his dime before going through with the purchase. And made sure that we were both comfortable in the decision before forging ahead with it. As a matter of fact, I'll go as far as to say that when I finally did buy the unit, I did so based on 50% product and 50% customer service.....and that is why I recommended them!
Thanks for sharing the experience. At least now we know Alan built torque converters aren't build by God like some suggest.auto02 said:hell yes i'm sure it was alan's tc. a friend of mine also has one and is experiencing the same problems as i did.that's why his pi tc is now on the way!
So sad. You went from making good points, to stupid comments all in the span of a couple of posts.Dark Knight GT said:Thanks for sharing the experience. At least now we know Alan built torque converters aren't build by God like some suggest.
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