torque tech, KB, or vortech

[darkside03gt]

I have no problem explaining myself. Just to be perfectly clear I am not bashing there product just simply giving my experience with there customer service.

About 6 months ago I considered either switching from my vortech to a tork teck kit or buying there centri intercooled intake manifold (pretty cool piece if you ask me) when I called (took a week to get someone on the phone and left multiple messages) and started asking about the intake the guy on the other line flat out could NOT give me any specifics on the intake. I asked how it would perform in the low end and if they had put it on dyno yet. He kept telling me is it should perform just like the stock manifold on the low end but had no data or dyno tests to back up anything he was saying about it. After that I asked questions about there blower set ups and told him that I was thinking about switching over to one of there kits and getting rid of my vortech. He then proceeded to tell me there kits are better in every way (witch is to be expected). We got on the subject of boost pressure (this is where the lie comes in). He told me that my centri was DANGEROUS because it will build boost violently when I start upping the boost, he claimed that my vortech will jump boost pressure by 3psi "violently" and cause me to loose traction every 1000 rpm after 3000 rpm and if I want a safe superchager system I should switch over to one of there kits asap. Hopefully you guys will understand my previous statement now.

I actually had a conversation with a dealer of tork teck kits on the corral and he told me he would call the owner and tell him about my experience. Maybe they changed customer service reps since my experience. I understand the salesman part of this business and know that any manufacturer is going to try to make a sale on there products but when you lie about the other guys product and try to make it out to be something its not thats when I draw the line. I do think they make a good product but bad customer service will kill any business, all of you know that. I understand that my previous post implied that they lied about there kit, they didnt. That was not my intention and I probably should have explained myself a little more the guy tried to lie to me to get me to buy his kit because mine was DANGEROUS. So again lack on KNOLEGE and LIEING on there part. Oh well.

 

[mat82284]

One prime example of why you couldn't pay me to live in California. If that state didn't spend so much money trying to enhance its image as a "green" and "socially responsible" state, it probably would be in such a financial bind right now. Huge state income tax levy, water police(making sure your sprinklers aren't turned on) driving around in new Toyota Prius's, $250k emissions sniffing vans. That state reaks of pork spending & inside contracts.

I totally agree with you, but honestly we have 60-80 deg wheather almost year around and its almost always sunny, I wouldnt trade that for anything. I love to be able to cruise around in my sports car year around and not have to worry about, snow or constant rain. We did have a few bad storms but its rare that it happens. Yes the smog is a B*tch but if you build and play your cards right you can own a 600hp monster (Visually) legally in CA. As long as the blower is smog legal your safe, So any Vortech, Paxton, Procharger, Or Kenne Bell will work. The reason tork tech wont work is because there to dam cheap to buy smog rights.

I have no problem explaining myself. Just to be perfectly clear I am not bashing there product just simply giving my experience with there customer service.

About 6 months ago I considered either switching from my vortech to a tork teck kit or buying there centri intercooled intake manifold (pretty cool piece if you ask me) when I called (took a week to get someone on the phone and left multiple messages) and started asking about the intake the guy on the other line flat out could NOT give me any specifics on the intake. I asked how it would perform in the low end and if they had put it on dyno yet. He kept telling me is it should perform just like the stock manifold on the low end but had no data or dyno tests to back up anything he was saying about it. After that I asked questions about there blower set ups and told him that I was thinking about switching over to one of there kits and getting rid of my vortech. He then proceeded to tell me there kits are better in every way (witch is to be expected). We got on the subject of boost pressure (this is where the lie comes in). He told me that my centri was DANGEROUS because it will build boost violently when I start upping the boost, he claimed that my vortech will jump boost pressure by 3psi "violently" and cause me to loose traction every 1000 rpm after 3000 rpm and if I want a safe supercharger system I should switch over to one of there kits asap. Hopefully you guys will understand my previous statement now.

I actually had a conversation with a dealer of tork teck kits on the corral and he told me he would call the owner and tell him about my experience. Maybe they changed customer service reps since my experience. I understand the salesman part of this business and know that any manufacturer is going to try to make a sale on there products but when you lie about the other guys product and try to make it out to be something its not thats when I draw the line. I do think they make a good product but bad customer service will kill any business, all of you know that. I understand that my previous post implied that they lied about there kit, they didnt. That was not my intention and I probably should have explained myself a little more the guy tried to lie to me to get me to buy his kit because mine was DANGEROUS. So again lack on KNOLEGE and LIEING on there part. Oh well.

As for your response, i have to agree with you. Took 2 weeks for my first e-mail reply, then each weak after for a single reply. I kept testing them to see how fast i could get a reply and if its this bad, could you imaging trying to return a product under WARRANTY (that is if they have a warranty?), you would be stangless for 6months or more i bet.

 

[darkside03gt]

Smog isnt that big of a deal out here in natzifornia if you know the right people.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

What he's trying to say is were to cheap to reach all 50 states and we only want to sell to people who dont have to worry about smog.

I doubt that's what they're saying at all. I remember when Allen had their REV I and REV II kits made CARB legal it damn near broke them. He's not joking when he says its a very lengthy and expensive process. Certainly not something most new start up companies are able to afford right away. You have to keep in mind....companies like Kenne Bell have been around since the mid-80's and others like Vortech and Paxton even longer than that. It was a much different time back then and having their kits made 50-state legal was likely much easier, much cheaper and probably was made possible without going through so much red tape.

California is a big market, not one that I'm sure they would want to pass up, so I would imagine its just a matter of time for them to sell a few units else ware and build up their rep before their kit becomes CARB legal.

As for your response, i have to agree with you. Took 2 weeks for my first e-mail reply, then each weak after for a single reply. I kept testing them to see how fast i could get a reply and if its this bad, could you imaging trying to return a product under WARRANTY (that is if they have a warranty?), you would be stangless for 6months or more i bet.

If you're really serious about looking into the kit, try contacting Ron Feddeman from Fast Specialties in Vancouver, WA (360) 213-2781. He's also a Stangnet member and goes by rfedd here on the site

He was one of the guys responsible for bringing the kit to market and seems to know a good deal about it and their servicing.

 

[mat82284]

I doubt that's what they're saying at all. I remember when Allen had their REV I and REV II kits made CARB legal it damn near broke them. He's not joking when he says its a very lengthy and expensive process. Certainly not something most new start up companies are able to afford right away. You have to keep in mind....companies like Kenne Bell have been around since the mid-80's and others like Vortech and Paxton even longer than that. It was a much different time back then and having their kits made 50-state legal was likely much easier, much cheaper and probably was made possible without going through so much red tape.

California is a big market, not one that I'm sure they would want to pass up, so I would imagine its just a matter of time for them to sell a few units else ware and build up their rep before their kit becomes CARB legal.



If you're really serious about looking into the kit, try contacting Ron Feddeman from Fast Specialties in Vancouver, WA (360) 213-2781. He's also a Stangnet member and goes by rfedd here on the site

He was one of the guys responsible for bringing the kit to market and seems to know a good deal about it and their servicing.

That is true, it was much easier back in the day, but as the world is going customers only want CARB legal kits, back in the day people didnt care, which is why it was cheap. In my opinion if you start a business you have to start it right, or else just wait in till you can afford to do it right. Look at Honda for example, yes the market has been killer on then, but they knew that the only way to start making profit was to make more and more hybrids, why because CA is a huge part of there profits, and they know it. So it became top priority, to change there whole business plan and it probably put them in so much debt, but they know that in 10-20 years they will still be around. I'm not saying CA is better than any other state or more populated, but I'm sure there are many other states that cant use there kit either because of smog. Yes smog is a big issue and honestly i believe that we all need more smog friendly cars so if you cant pay the money to make it smog legal and help the environment in the process, then maybe you shouldn't be in business. I live in CA and passes Smog with a Saleen Supercharger and a Bassani Catted X-pipe. (visually the xpipe shouldn't have passed but the guy didn't know what he was doing lol) But i still passed the legal limits of the smog.

As for the kit, I already bought a Vortech because its cheaper and smog legal. Tork Tech better get smog legal soon or else they will be going out of business in due time because Vortech has now marketed Twin Screws that are Smog legal and will be a little cheaper than Kenne Bell. (probably wont be out for another year or two though) But right now Tork tech can take advantage of it because the cobra kit that comes out can be adapted to 2v motors that vortech hasnt worked on yet, They can sell their, lower intercooler manifold and combine it with a vortech twin screw cobra model for the ultimate demon that can be smog legal because the vortech will have carb numbers on it and the intake will look factory. I'm my opinion if Tork Tech hasnt already contacted vortech about this then i dono, they could possibly sell there designs or join forces with Vortech to make a universal kit that can be taken with you as you sell your car. Say from 02gt to 04cobra to say a 08 roush. That way you dont spend over and over again. This would help tork tech get much bigger than they are now.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122190

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

I have a place in NorCal that will pass my inspection due to the owner being the wife of a guy i worked with who happens to work for my dad's company.

And i've been down here in SD for just over a year and have two places that will do it. inspection is the easiest to get by - sniffer is harder to trick.

As for them lieing, sounds more just like uninformed. I've talked with the main guy people talk with and each time i ask a technical question he needs to get back to me - so it's not like he's the brains behind the engineering, more a representative/sales person. And thier site likes to compare against a centri a lot, so he might be easily bias. I wouldn't trust a KB representative concerning a centri anyways. I know the guy who designed these parts is a pretty serious engineer of these sorts but i can imagine once you design this kind of kit you're no longer answering phones.
They do need to work on their timely response, i still dont know what snout length is needed for a TVS 1900 on their kit after him telling me he'd ask twice.

 

[mat82284]

I have a place in NorCal that will pass my inspection due to the owner being the wife of a guy i worked with who happens to work for my dad's company.

And i've been down here in SD for just over a year and have two places that will do it. inspection is the easiest to get by - sniffer is harder to trick.

As for them lieing, sounds more just like uninformed. I've talked with the main guy people talk with and each time i ask a technical question he needs to get back to me - so it's not like he's the brains behind the engineering, more a representative/sales person. And thier site likes to compare against a centri a lot, so he might be easily bias. I wouldn't trust a KB representative concerning a centri anyways. I know the guy who designed these parts is a pretty serious engineer of these sorts but i can imagine once you design this kind of kit you're no longer answering phones.
They do need to work on their timely response, i still dont know what snout length is needed for a TVS 1900 on their kit after him telling me he'd ask twice.

You have to realize that kenne bell designed there own kit. Tork tech did not. They just put together a kit. The only thing they designed is there Intake Tube. The Roots M112 was designed by Eaton, and you'll never get to talk to him on the phone lol. The kit has some good thought put into it but the actual design of the blower is Eaton. Kenne bell Makes there stuff from the ground up. I'm like you, i wouldn't trust kenne bell reps either, as i'm sure the job qualifications for those positions are just like any other, Read from a prompt and when you don't have an answer, then call them back. Just use your better judgment when deciding.

 

[Flghtmstr1]

I think I should point out that Kenne Bell's kits aren't designed wholly by Kenne Bell, either. Their supercharger is made by Autorotor, for example. Both companies designed their intake manifolds and intercooler setups, and I'm not sure what else you would expect them to design.

I also am surprised by people saying they had bad customer service experiences with Tork Tech. I have been able to get in touch with them very easily every time I had a question or issue. I have always reached them on my first phone call attempt, and they will respond to my emails the same day (usually, within an hour). Like someone else said, it's possible they hired a new CSR.

 

[mat82284]

I think I should point out that Kenne Bell's kits aren't designed wholly by Kenne Bell, either. Their supercharger is made by Autorotor, for example. Both companies designed their intake manifolds and intercooler setups, and I'm not sure what else you would expect them to design.

I also am surprised by people saying they had bad customer service experiences with Tork Tech. I have been able to get in touch with them very easily every time I had a question or issue. I have always reached them on my first phone call attempt, and they will respond to my emails the same day (usually, within an hour). Like someone else said, it's possible they hired a new CSR.

Well thats some new information that i never knew about kenne bell, Thanks! So either way there both decent kits, just the smog is the big issue. Honestly were almost in the first quarter of 09, i would wait a little and see how much vortech sells there new twin screw head unit for the 03 cobra for and see if its a better deal getting that with the superchargerless kit with torktech, one benefit would be that you can take that supercharger and swap to a 5.4 liter or swap to a 05+ gt without having to buy a new kit. Thats the best feature about the tork tech kit that i like, whether its the kit with the charger or just the manifold.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

You have to realize that kenne bell designed there own kit. Tork tech did not. They just put together a kit. The only thing they designed is there Intake Tube. The Roots M112 was designed by Eaton, and you'll never get to talk to him on the phone lol. The kit has some good thought put into it but the actual design of the blower is Eaton. Kenne bell Makes there stuff from the ground up. I'm like you, i wouldn't trust kenne bell reps either, as i'm sure the job qualifications for those positions are just like any other, Read from a prompt and when you don't have an answer, then call them back. Just use your better judgment when deciding.

Actually Magnuson Products makes their blowers, that's why it starts with a MP. The 2300 is mainly a Eaton endeavor with Ford. I've talked directly with them about their blowers, and that's where i'd get a blower. Direct from them, in "RAW" form. Also the main thing TorkTech makes is the lower intake manifold and 8-rib drive system, the intake tube is just another thing they make as well. The lower intake manifold and intercooler are specifically theirs and engineered for this boost application.

Also i have no problem running a blower from a company that all they do is make those blowers, leave the kit making for a company that whats to specifically engineer the kit (like Kenne Bell does).
The TVS 1900 is a great new blower design (as in technology from this past year for those of you who thing roots are old-school and ineffcient) which is being used in the Corvette ZR1 and also Henssey LS9 Camaro which is pumped up to 705hp. So do i have a problem using thier blower? Not really.

 

[mat82284]

Actually Magnuson Products makes their blowers, that's why it starts with a MP. The 2300 is mainly a Eaton endeavor with Ford. I've talked directly with them about their blowers, and that's where i'd get a blower. Direct from them, in "RAW" form. Also the main thing TorkTech makes is the lower intake manifold and 8-rib drive system, the intake tube is just another thing they make as well. The lower intake manifold and intercooler are specifically theirs and engineered for this boost application.

Also i have no problem running a blower from a company that all they do is make those blowers, leave the kit making for a company that whats to specifically engineer the kit (like Kenne Bell does).
The TVS 1900 is a great new blower design (as in technology from this past year for those of you who thing roots are old-school and ineffcient) which is being used in the Corvette ZR1 and also Henssey LS9 Camaro which is pumped up to 705hp. So do i have a problem using thier blower? Not really.

They all make good kits and you cant go wrong with either, but your big concern that can decide on what kit should be is the smog issue. Yes you can pass with your friend but you cant on the street. So if the blower doesn't have any carb numbers on it then it can be impounded, at least in CA. if a cop wants to tow your car for anything not legal he can. Most likly they would do this if their raciest, or maybe the cop is having a bad day, then it also can turn your day bad, Or maybe you decided to drive through the wrong small town because those are usually the worst cops. Its good to be smog legal that way if your car was towed you could sue. I had a friend with a custom turbo on his mustang, the cop had no idea if it was smog legal or not, but wanted to tow it anyways. After he got it back the turbo kit was GONE, and the paint was keyed. I argued and fought but lost because there not responsible for the car once its impounded. At least he got his car back. I bet the cops stole the kit and kept it or sold it. I got pulled over before and the cop measured my head light to see how low it was to the ground as well as look to see if i have cats. He also opened my engine bay.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

You have to realize that kenne bell designed there own kit. Tork tech did not. They just put together a kit. The only thing they designed is there Intake Tube. The Roots M112 was designed by Eaton, and you'll never get to talk to him on the phone lol. The kit has some good thought put into it but the actual design of the blower is Eaton. Kenne bell Makes there stuff from the ground up. I'm like you, i wouldn't trust kenne bell reps either, as i'm sure the job qualifications for those positions are just like any other, Read from a prompt and when you don't have an answer, then call them back. Just use your better judgment when deciding.

You do realize that Kenne Bell superchargers are not enritely designed by Kenne Bell either, right? Kenne Bell may manufacture and assemble their own cases and nose drives for the blower, but the all important rotor pack itself still comes from Sweeden and the whole unit design is still based around Opcon/Lysholm. Other than that yes, Kenne bell also builds their own inlet and lower intake manifold for their systems as well, but they're not exclusive in the practice alone....

Furthermore, the Tork Tech kit was the brian child design of Charles Warner (of Magnum Powers) and Bill Evanoff (of Supercoupe Performance). The lower manifold, bracketry, intake, inlet and intercooler system were designed from the ground up by Tork Tech theselves, much like the Kenne Bell system was. What you may also note is that the Tork Tech kit utilizes a 5th Generation MP112 Magnacharger, not a traditional Eaton as you seem to be under the missconception of. The rotor packs themselves are suplied by Eaton (much like Kenne Bells are supplied by Lysholm) but the cases themselves are designed and built by their performance division at Magnuson Products

I guess Flghtmster1 beat me to this response.

 

[Blackone51]

They all make good kits and you cant go wrong with either, but your big concern that can decide on what kit should be is the smog issue. Yes you can pass with your friend but you cant on the street. So if the blower doesn't have any carb numbers on it then it can be impounded, at least in CA. if a cop wants to tow your car for anything not legal he can. Most likly they would do this if their raciest, or maybe the cop is having a bad day, then it also can turn your day bad, Or maybe you decided to drive through the wrong small town because those are usually the worst cops. Its good to be smog legal that way if your car was towed you could sue. I had a friend with a custom turbo on his mustang, the cop had no idea if it was smog legal or not, but wanted to tow it anyways. After he got it back the turbo kit was GONE, and the paint was keyed. I argued and fought but lost because there not responsible for the car once its impounded. At least he got his car back. I bet the cops stole the kit and kept it or sold it. I got pulled over before and the cop measured my head light to see how low it was to the ground as well as look to see if i have cats. He also opened my engine bay.

Damn Im glad I live in Wisconsin, I would rather put up with winter than that stuff. Cops could care less about cars being smog legal. I have to much family in law enforcement to matter tho

 

[mat82284]

You do realize that Kenne Bell superchargers are not enritely designed by Kenne Bell either, right? Kenne Bell may manufacture and assemble their own cases and nose drives for the blower, but the all important rotor pack itself still comes from Sweeden and is still based around Opcon/Lysholm design. Other than that yes, Kenne bell also builds their own inlet and lower intake manifold for their systems as well, but they're not exclusive in the practice alone....

Furthermore, the Tork Tech kit was the brian child design of Charles Warner (of Magnum Powers) and Bill Evanoff (of Supercoupe Performance). The lower manifold, bracketry, intake, inlet and intercooler system were designed from the ground up by Tork Tech theselves, much like the Kenne Bell system was. What you may also note is that the Tork Tech kit utilizes a 5th Generation MP112 Magnacharger, not a traditional Eaton as you seem to be under the missconception of. The rotor packs themselves are suplied by Eaton (much like Kenne Bells are supplied by Lysholm) but the cases themselves are designed and built by their performance division at Magnuson Products

I guess Flghtmster1 beat me to this response.

Like i mentioned to him, Im not trying to argue i just thought kenne bell designed them. Now i know the truth since Flghtmster1 told me lol, and now you did as well. Either way its up to the user and location all kits are good. But honestly if smog is not an issue i would say go Twin turbo instead!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

But honestly if smog is not an issue i would say go Twin turbo instead!

That’s fine if making peek power and great dyno numbers are all that is important to you, but no turbo (single or twin) set up built to date will give you the drivability, low end torque, as broad a power curve or the over all street manners of a Positive Displacement kit.

 

[ScortLX]

Right now, I only want my car to be around 380 rwhp to save the bottom end so pulleys are not an issue for someone in my situation. I also want the car to be a sleeper, so I want to keep the stock hood with no modifications at all. I do not want to replace the stock hood or add their "extended" scoop, so Tork Tech is out for me (at this moment). We'll see what the market is like a year from now or so when I'm looking to go FI. I think either is a great choice.

 

[Mstg05]

I don't think anyone mentioned that you have to have an aftermarket hood for the tork tech blower kit. Its in the sorta fine print. They only mention the cobra r hood as a good choice, so I don't know if that means its the only hood that will fit.

Here's my take on everything:

Kenne Bell: Experience, excellent quality, poor costomer serivce, good for street or strip. With the proper suspension and drivetrain setup traction isn't that big of a problem. Well established company. Expensive (however, pay to play)

Vortech: Experience, great for the track, complete kits, good price, okay quality, consumes alot of under hood space. I personally don't like things looking cluttered. Makes it harder for normal maint. Boost creep can be an issue.

Tork Tech: Not smog legal. Not well established yet, which could mean some tuners may not be comfortable getting the most out of the kit. I like the ease of pully swap (don't have to buy special tools) and I like the 8 rib independent belt setup. Its a roots style blower. Why do all the termi guys switch from roots to twin screw? Better? More Efficient? You decide.

I'm personally sold on the KB kit. They may have poor customer service, however they don't have many problems with the kits. Seems like the most common problem is a no start due to piggy back connection issues. If you're calling them for a basic question you should be looking at yourself. Do your homework before you buy. You shouldn't be calling KB customer service to ask basic questions about supercharging. After all, if you're getting a supercharger, you should be takin your car to get it tuned anyway, wether they sell you a tune or not. The tuner should be able to answer any questions you have, if not, get your keys and take your car elsewhere.

 

[trinity_gt]

I bought my 1.7L intercooled KB used on ebay. When it arrived it was in fairly good condition but missing some pieces. "TJ" at KB was very helpful in assisting me in getting those parts, replacing a damaged injector and obtaining additional pulleys and re-tuning the chip for my combination. I know it's only anecdotal but TJ at least was a great help to me so right now at least, I'm "+1" for KB customer assistance. He did intimate that for folks who purchased used, things might be a bit trickier (getting replacement bits and whatnot) but that's understandable.

I had it installed at the shop I'm storing the car at for winter. Original pulleys, original intake, all PCV and EGR stuff preserved, no hood mods and an easy 385HP with a questionable fuel pump (i.e. there's more there, just need to address some stuff.) The newer 2.2L kits have more potential but still fit just as well.

Given KBs vast experience and staying power and their domination of the PD market, I'd say that Tork Tech would have to offer a pretty compelling setup to go with them over KB. I'm sure TTs kit is nice but let's see a line-item comparo to see how things really stack up.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Why do Termi ownerw switch to twin screw? Because no one makes a bigger or better roots to fit the 03 cobra. Look at the newer 5.4 GT500, the most common big upgrade is a 2300 TVS blower which is roots.
People upgrade from the stock heaton on the 03 because it's hot and ineffcient, but that's not to say all roots are. The same size 5th gen MP112 itself is much more efficient and makes more power per psi but doesnt bolt on the 03.
Why did Chevy decide to put a roots blower on their flagship ZR1?

 

[darkside03gt]

And i've been down here in SD for just over a year and have two places that will do it. inspection is the easiest to get by - sniffer is harder to trick.

If you know the right people your car wont even see the sniffer.