CobraRed_96_GT
Active Member
Getting a certification that goes right to Sacramento for your car without it actually being measured is on the wrong side of a federal offense for me. Turning a blind eye is one thing, fraud is another.
torque tech, KB, or vortech
- Thread starter fromadig91
- Start date
Oh I know. I am just saying that there are people out there who make it possible for cars that are COMPLETELY illegal to stay registered and therefore remain on the road. But for people with carb certified parts like my s-trim passing smog is cake if its tuned right. And in some cases just a pulley swap away.
mustangman9812
10 Year Member
I say go with Vortech or KB, prob the best streetable and all around fun will be the Vortech. Just get a Vortech and be done.
When was the last time you actually saw a hood popped? I havent seen one in about a year and a half. There was a time when cops in sac were popping hoods left and right (my barber had to get rid of his z because of it) but it never happened to me. And last I checked they couldnt impound your car unless they had reason to believe that the parts may be stolen. I thought all they could really do is send you to a state ref in witch case you would be fined if your parts were not legal.usually people get there cars impounded because they do something stupid first like spin a donut. After that a cop will most likely start digging and already has the right to impound your car. Once impouded the car is gone through for non legal parts and you are then later fined for the violations. I am not calling you a liar here but something doesnt sound right with your buddys story. If he had a custom turbo setup he would have been fined. Dont you have the right to refuse any searches of your personal property including your car if they dont have probable cause? I have refused a search before (didnt say anything about checking for smog legality), got a ticket but refused the search.
I don't think anyone mentioned that you have to have an aftermarket hood for the tork tech blower kit. Its in the sorta fine print. They only mention the cobra r hood as a good choice, so I don't know if that means its the only hood that will fit.
No aftermarket hood needed. The hood scoop extention is all that's required and its only an additional $199. Considering most guys here have aftermarket hoods on their rides as it is, its kind of a semi-non issue IMO. But whatever....even with the cost of the scoop extention, its still $300 cheaper than the Kenne Bell and unless you really know what you're looking for, it still maintains the "sleeper status".
Here's my take on everything:
Kenne Bell: Experience, excellent quality, poor costomer serivce, good for street or strip. With the proper suspension and drivetrain setup traction isn't that big of a problem. Well established company. Expensive (however, pay to play)
Agree on all points above.
Vortech: Experience, great for the track, complete kits, good price, okay quality, consumes alot of under hood space. I personally don't like things looking cluttered. Makes it harder for normal maint. Boost creep can be an issue.
I think this is a personal choice thing. The quality of the Vortech is as good as any IMO. As far as consuming a lot of under hood space....I guess that depends on your point of view. The bulk of the kit is located at the front of the engine compartment, but PD blowers like the KB and the TT are located at the top of the engine compartment. Six in one, half a dozen in the other as far as I'm concerned?Normal maintenance is unaffected really...plugs and filter are still easily accessible. And the "boost creep" is nothing but internet banter IMO. Vortechs/Paxton/ATI all seem to built power steadily across the power band without any real spikes. No, they don't put out the bottom end airflow and the steady torque curve of the PD blowers, but because they create lower ACT's on the top end, their efficiency and therefore power in the upper RPM ranges tends to be higher. Not violent or peaky like a turbo, but steadily higher than a PD none the less.
Tork Tech: Not smog legal. Not well established yet,Not well established? In what sense? They utilize a Magnuson compressor that's backed with 40-years of developmental experience behind it and has set the industry standard in the OEM market. As previously stated, the company was founded by Charles Warner of Magnum Powers who is well established in the engineering and business engineering field and has been in business with his own company for the last 15-years and set the standard for Eaton performance. Don’t take my word for it….do an internet search or Magnum Powers and see the plethora of overwhelming responses you get. As a matter of fact, I can’t ever recall hearing a bad comment about them? He's partnered with Bill Evanhoff another well known who too has been in the business for over 15-years and who single handedly turned a financially hemorrhaging company like Super Coupe Performance (acquired by him in 1999) into an industry leading company. These guys aren't just a couple of Joe's off the street who met in a college cafeteria one day and though it might be a good idea to take a crack at building an aftermarket supercharger company. They're both very well established and experienced in their field.
which could mean some tuners may not be comfortable getting the most out of the kit. Not being comfortable "getting the most out of the kit". I'm not really sure what that means? You think the A/F ratio and ACT's are going to somehow react differently on the dyno on a Tork Tech car than they will with any other type of blower car?If a tuner can tune an '03-'04 Cobra, 2nd Gen Lightning, Thunderbird Supercoupe or any other positive displacement charged car on the market (including those sporting Kenne Bell kits) then he can tune a Tork Tech!
I like the ease of pully swap (don't have to buy special tools) and I like the 8 rib independent belt setup. Its a roots style blower. Why do all the termi guys switch from roots to twin screw? Better? More Efficient? You decide.
Since you missed it before, I'll state it again. The Terminator blower and the 5th Generation Magnacharger on the Tork Tech are not the same blower. The only thing they have in common is that they're both roots based and both displace 112ci of displacement per revolution. Otherwise, the 5th Gen has the 4th Gen Eaton beat hands down. Without going into huge detail, just look over this write up to see the differences between the two...its night and day!!! FAQ1
As far as efficiency goes....what would you say if I told you the 5th Gen Magnacharger consistently performs on par or in most cases outperforms the 2.1L Twin Screw across the board altogether in head to head comparisons? And that's taking into account the Magnacharger only displaces 1.85L to the KB's 2.1L Low speed airflow is much greater with the Magnacharger and with revisions to the case and port timing, the Magnacharger matches the Autorotor/Lysholm in top end efficiency. Like I said...this isn't the same old Eaton M112 you're used to seeing.
I'm personally sold on the KB kit. They may have poor customer service, however they don't have many problems with the kits. Seems like the most common problem is a no start due to piggy back connection issues. If you're calling them for a basic question you should be looking at yourself. Do your homework before you buy. You shouldn't be calling KB customer service to ask basic questions about supercharging. After all, if you're getting a supercharger, you should be taking your car to get it tuned anyway, wether they sell you a tune or not. The tuner should be able to answer any questions you have, if not, get your keys and take your car elsewhere.
Autorotor/Lysholm blowers have also had numerous random issues with leaky nose drives over the years, but it’s easily corrected....much like the Procharger's P1SC problems were. Either way, it shouldn't deter someone from buying one of their kits. They're a great choice. I’m just giving you another example of minor “issues” that may arise. As far as choice….your personal preference is just that....I just thought a few of your outlooks on the noted kits needed to be clarified first so others could come to an equally objective opinion.
They have lined them up and performance wise the comparable 1.7L/2.1L Kenne Bell has come up short by comparison. As did the larger Lysholm 2300
The average KB car puts out anywhere from 370-390rwhp on pump gas, depending on the drivetrain configuration and tune. Yeah, I realize Kenne Bell has published figures of 400+hp with their 1.7L and 2.1L kits @9psi, but in the fine print you'll also notice they're running 23* of timing and race gas in their tank to reach those figures.
5.0L Mustang and Super Fords recently tested a Tork Tech kit on a bone stock 5-speed '99 GT and made 406rwhp/399lbs/ft tq @9psi on pump gas!!! The timing was later knocked back to bring power levels back down to a safer mid-370ish rwph range to keep the bottom end happy, but the results speak for themselves. Link to article.....New Edge Mustang Supercharger - '99-'04 Two-Valve Roots Blower Kit - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine
On a recent separate occasion, JDM did an intall on a stock '99-'04 GT and took the horsepower levels up from 216rwhp to 402rwhp on pump gas as well.....an automatic equipped car of all things.
Link to the vid of Jim D'Amore's testimony
YouTube - Tork Tech JDM Testimonial.mpg
Magnacharger also recently tested the MP112 against a both a Whipple and Porcharger superchargers on a 5.3L Chevy Truck engine. All tests utilized the same manifold and intercooler and the only mods done to the engine were cam, valve springs, LS2 throttle body and necessary fuel upgrades. The blowers were all pullied to make the same peek boost pressure and were run to a 6,500RPM red line and fed with 91-octane pump gas.
At 7.5psi (based around the compression limit of the stock engine capabilities) the MP112 bested the Lysholm 2300 by 50lbs ft of torque at 1,500RPM (400lbs/ft vs. 350lbs/ft) and held the lead all the way up until 5,700RPM where the much larger twin screw finally caught up and passed the Magnacharger. That’s a 1.85L vs. 2.3L blower. Its safe to say that the only reason the Lysholm caught it at all was the deeper breathing characteristics of the larger compressor. Had their displacement been more similar, I believe the victory would have been Magnacharger all the way across the board.
Article here Magna Charger manufacturers intercooled supercharging systems for late model GM and Ford cars, trucks and SUVs utilizing OEM quality Eaton hybrid superchargers.
If that doesn't do it for you, keep in mind the 600hp capable 1900TVS performs on par all the way across the board in the same ranges of a 2.4L-2.6L, all while putting out decreased ACT in the process. That's still only a 1.9L blower. Not to mention the 1900TVS is a $1,000 price upgrade from the standard MP112 supplied with the Tork Tech, where the 2.6L upgrade is double that at $2,000 for the Kenne Bell. And you'll notice the 2.6L also requires not only an aftermarket hood like the Tork Tech, but an 8-rib pulley conversion and an oval bore throttle body as well as a large MAF inlet and intake tube....which all come standard on the Tork Tech kit.
...so how does the Tork Tech stack up.....I'd say pretty friggin well, wouldn't you?
02LaserRed2V
New Member
ScortLX
Founding Member
Alright guys, I was set on the KB in about a month or so here and as we near the purchase my dad advised me to check out the torque tech and vortech superchargers after reading a few articles in modded mustangs magazine. If I were to go twin screw would you suggest torque tech or the infamous KB. Or do i scrape the twin screw idea and go vortech? I know the prices of these kits are similar, install wise which is easier?
Hey, just wanted to make sure all this info answered your question! What did you decide on? What route are you going? Whichever you choose, I bet you will love the boost!
Hey, just wanted to make sure all this info answered your question! What did you decide on? What route are you going? Whichever you choose, I bet you will love the boost!
Leaning more towards the KB at this point, but vortech is still on the table. I kinda ruled tork tech out over the last week and still have a little less then a month to decide which route I want to take. I'm sure I will keep you guys posted and have a few questions about install in the upcoming months. Oh and there WILL be pictures no need to ask.
Thanks again for all the help guys, you are a crucial element in my final decision
04GTMustang
New Member
i like my kb for the street its a lot of fun. heck my brother even admits it that he likes driving my car on the street more than his. he makes way way way more peak power than me but still loses.
i cant really say anything about tork tech because i have never seen one in action i have only read about them. tork tech is a great kit. i just never went with it cause i didnt feel like modifying my hood or putting a new hood on then getting it painted. cause that cost alone right there for a new one and painting it would make the kit more expensive then a kb.
the kb was not that bad to put on. we had it on in about 16 hours. took about 4 hours longer than putting on my brothers procharger. the hardest part or should i say the part that took the longest was unbolting the manifold. putting the unit on itself was really easy.
if you do mostly street and dont wanna rev your car to the moon to feel power go with a roots style blower you will have a lot more fun and be able to feel what our money went to more often.
i cant really say anything about tork tech because i have never seen one in action i have only read about them. tork tech is a great kit. i just never went with it cause i didnt feel like modifying my hood or putting a new hood on then getting it painted. cause that cost alone right there for a new one and painting it would make the kit more expensive then a kb.
the kb was not that bad to put on. we had it on in about 16 hours. took about 4 hours longer than putting on my brothers procharger. the hardest part or should i say the part that took the longest was unbolting the manifold. putting the unit on itself was really easy.
if you do mostly street and dont wanna rev your car to the moon to feel power go with a roots style blower you will have a lot more fun and be able to feel what our money went to more often.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
...so how does the Tork Tech stack up.....I'd say pretty friggin well, wouldn't you?
Indeed. Based on numbers alone, the TT setup looks to be the real deal.
How about emissions compliance (and let's face it, for great swaths of the US and pretty much all of Canada, this matters for DDs)?
superstang01
Active Member
The Tork Tech kit wasn't even available yet back when you bought your KB, was it?
As far as I know, it’s only a big deal in Cali where C.A.R.B. certification is required? Most States that I know of only have visual, or sniff tests that need to be passed, which is easily accomplished as long as your tuner isn't a meat head, the kit has provisions for EGR (which the TT kit does), your cars pollution hardware is hooked up and you've got cats on the car.
This is pretty much the way it is throughout all of Canada as well. Nothing anywhere near as strict as Californiastan. And where I'm from we don't have any E-Testing at all.
04GTMustang
New Member
The Tork Tech kit wasn't even available yet back when you bought your KB, was it?
As far as I know, it’s only a big deal in Cali where C.A.R.B. certification is required? Most States that I know of only have visual, or sniff tests that need to be passed, which is easily accomplished as long as your tuner isn't a meat head, the kit has provisions for EGR (which the TT kit does), your cars pollution hardware is hooked up and you've got cats on the car.
This is pretty much the way it is throughout all of Canada as well. Nothing anywhere near as strict as Californiastan. And where I'm from we don't have any E-Testing at all.
i dunno i think it was i bought my kit in july. so i dunno if it was out yet but im pretty sure it was. but i have no regrets the kb has treated me well.
Flghtmstr1
Member
I certainly will. I'll probably make a thread when I put it on, and then update the thread when I tune it. It's so excrucating to have it sit in my living room and not on top of my engine. I hope I'll be able to get started on the install Monday, but we'll see.
Vortech sells rebadged Lysholms under the Vortech name. But only the compressor itself. Not the entire kit. Great for guys wanting to go the custom route, or upgrade their '03-'04 Cobra's or GT500's, but that's the extent of it.
usaf_branham
15 Year Member
holy crap this thread is old... lol, i read this probably 5 times before i decided to go with kennebell...
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