Turbo 68 fastback... carb or efi?

180 Out · Jan 4, 2006

rhyno9 said:
Below are my fuel system and efi related costs. Obviously some of them will bleed over regardless of carb or efi.

aeromotive a1000 pump 200 used
aeromotive regulator 150
1/2 fuel rails 75 used
70 mm throttle body 200
95 Cobra intake 125 used (yeah I practically stole it)
Lucas 42 lb injectors 250
Megasquirt and relay board 200
An fittings and lines 150
EFI fuel filter housings 70 used
Wideband $200

Over $1600 so far. If you do the ford efi thing you are looking at $100 for an ecu and $200 for MAF and at a minimum $100 for harness depending on how much work you want to do to it. A prebuilt harness is over $400.

From this day on I swear I will never list out the costs for this damn project.

It scares me to think about that.

Also, there's the cost of a notebook computer for those who don't own one. What are the minimum system requirements? I'm guessing they're low enough that some obsolete five year old notebook would do the job, but I don't know for sure.

rhyno9 · Jan 4, 2006

180 Out said:
Also, there's the cost of a notebook computer for those who don't own one. What are the minimum system requirements? I'm guessing they're low enough that some obsolete five year old notebook would do the job, but I don't know for sure.

Yeah I forgot about that part. I am a software engineer so I have 3-4 laptops lying around my house. The megasquirt actually works better with an older laptop becasue it needs a serial port. Most newer (2-3 yr old) laptops don't have serial ports because everything is USB now. You can use USB adaptors however numerous people have reported strange behaviors when using USB.

I am using a pentium 233 megahertz that is about 6 yrs old.

mtbdoc · Jan 4, 2006

Good thread. I will be dealing with the EFI issues on my 66 [KB twin screw] and didn't realize initially all of the ass'd costs for fuel systems. I am a bit concerned about the size of the fuel pump...not sure if the A1000 will handle it or not [seriously]. Also, I am undecided about megasquirt vs. TwEECer/stock computer.

For my 2+2 [if I actually get around to it rather than just keep it sitting as an investment] I really WANT to do a turbo. I love the idea of a 427/460 small block, but realize that a turbo would be massive fun. If I get the efi stuff figured out on the 66, it would certainly make the 65 easier to do.

Man do I LOVE fast cars!!! Been doing some paint/cosmetic work on the GTO and have been commuting in a Chrysler Sebring...bring me HORSEPOWER!!! Then again, my GTO has made the wife's WRX feel really slow...something about 500+rwhp in a V8 that will just "git 'r done".

gp001 · Jan 4, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
Well, which do you guys think would be better? Either way it needs a full fuel system including carb or efi setup. EFI does better with a turbo but carb is different.

What sounds better?

Didn't you have all the EFI stuff at one point and sell it all off to buy soemthing else?

Edbert · Jan 4, 2006

I say carb, for two reasons...

1.) To be different from the thousands of turbo Foxes and SN95s out there.
2.) It's a CLASSIC.

rhyno9 · Jan 4, 2006

mtbdoc said:
I am a bit concerned about the size of the fuel pump...not sure if the A1000 will handle it or not [seriously]

I am sure you have posted your build and I apologize for not remembering the specifics however I hope you are planning on an aftermarket block because the A1000 will support an efi 800hp forced induction engine. Obviously that is well beyond the capacity of a stock block.

Sounds insane to me. That's my kinda project

10secgoal · Jan 5, 2006

iskwezm said:
What was the pump doing and what are you plugs gapped at.I think im blowing out my spark or something at high rpm.

The plugs are at .025, I think. Or maybe .023
The car would lean out real bad. It would go from 11.5 for a sec, then straight into the 12's. I jet up, then it starts at 11.2, then would go to 12's. It was a combination of things that made it a little tricky. My venturi;s in the carb were too small. Just not enough signal. I went back to a stock 650 main body, and changed the high speed bleeds. The fuel curve makes EFI jealous. Right not it's a litle rich when I step on it. Then it flattens out and slowly climbs from 11.5-11.7

Fostang · Jan 7, 2006

If I were building a low hp say 500hp and below motor then yes I'd go EFI but for say my 408 I think I'm going to sell off my EFI things and buy a csu carb.

I will be able to buy an intake carb carb hat and correct dizzy and still have another 2K to spend after I sell my efi things.

I wouldn't use stock ford electronics nor a whimpy gt40 intake. I'm talking victor spyder intake, 86mm tb, 83lb injectors, billet dizzy, big stuff gen3 management.

65ShelbyClone · Jan 8, 2006

Fostang said:
I wouldn't use stock ford electronics

It would be near impossible to use an FMU on a high power engine and get the fuel curve right anyway. If you dont mind using the stock EEC-IV ECU, about $150 will get you all the stuff to edit binaries/program a chip and run it through the J3 port like a twEEcer. I have a thread in 5.0 Tech about running an EFI computer from a PC(can also be done) and all kinds of info came out of it.

On the other hand, I wouldnt convert to EFI just to run a turbo.

Fostang · Jan 8, 2006

Well you definatly would need a tune for anything over 300rwhp or any kind of performance mods to perform tip top and about 500 is the limit more than anything because the need for big injectors come into play.

The bigger they get the sloppier they are in high impedence mode. So you get a driver and the tweeker and a wide band by that time you could have spent a few more bucks and bought a good engine management system.

With lots of support and even more features than stock electronics. In addition to this you get it in one simple package.

10secgoal · Jan 8, 2006

Fostang said:
If I were building a low hp say 500hp and below motor then yes I'd go EFI but for say my 408 I think I'm going to sell off my EFI things and buy a csu carb.

I will be able to buy an intake carb carb hat and correct dizzy and still have another 2K to spend after I sell my efi things.

You gonna get the 850 ? What kinda distributor you looking at getting. I am looking at getting rid of my pro billet MSD to get one with vaccum advance.

xoxbxfx · Jan 8, 2006

gp001 said:
Didn't you have all the EFI stuff at one point and sell it all off to buy soemthing else?

lol... cant believe some of you guys remeber my stuff from 3-4 years ago. Anyways, thats a different car and different motor. That was for my 69 coupe 393 stroker. This turbo setup is going on a 302 68 fastback

Fostang · Jan 8, 2006

10secgoal said:
You gonna get the 850 ? What kinda distributor you looking at getting. I am looking at getting rid of my pro billet MSD to get one with vaccum advance.

I haven't looked that far into yet. I still need to call CSU so they can tell me what they recomend. As far as the dizzy I think thats the one I need.

I haven't had much time to research it in depth. Too many cars too little time.

Wiggawam · Jan 9, 2006

xo don't bother with a 302 go straight to the 351 if your using a stock block. We broke one in half running 460hp to the wheels turboed. General thought is anything greater than 500 is gonna go sooner or later. And by broke in half we had two engine blocks after that, only thing holding it together was a main girdle.

xoxbxfx · Jan 9, 2006

Wiggawam said:
xo don't bother with a 302 go straight to the 351 if your using a stock block. We broke one in half running 460hp to the wheels turboed. General thought is anything greater than 500 is gonna go sooner or later. And by broke in half we had two engine blocks after that, only thing holding it together was a main girdle.

im not to worried about it...its a stock roller forged motor. I have seen these motors take up to 12psi with 150k miles on them as a daily driver.

10secgoal · Jan 9, 2006

I just don't want one because it's a hassle. A 351w is still a stock block. I rather have the 302 now, replace later with real block.

mtbdoc · Jan 9, 2006

Mine is a B50 'sportsman' block [about like the old mexican blocks]; forged 331 bottom end; AFR heads; big blower cam. To run the KB requires a Ford intake, so I have a Fox-Lake stage III ported GT40. Bought it off a guy turning some amazing times in a fox-body. Looks funny on the underside as it has so much fill to replace the machined-out metal.

The A1000 has reportedly shown some UNDER performing with forced-induction. No firsthand knowledge, so this may just be internet rumor-crap.

I really need to learn more about the TwEECer and capabilities of the stock system. 2 yrs ago I was on a spending spree, and got one new [off this board] but it has been sitting...as has the 'vert.

Part of my problem has been this:

Nothing like running a 6 speed HEAVY car on a slick strip. But the best trap speed was ~119 just running 7psi boost, so it was fun.

And just to show the garage is TOO SMALL:

iskwezm · Jan 9, 2006

Edbert said:
I say carb, for two reasons...

1.) To be different from the thousands of turbo Foxes and SN95s out there.
2.) It's a CLASSIC.

yup

10secgoal · Jan 9, 2006

mtbdoc said:
The A1000 has reportedly shown some UNDER performing with forced-induction. No firsthand knowledge, so this may just be internet rumor-crap.

Yeah, internet crap. It makes 1177rwhp on a street car on a blo thru setup.

Fostang · Jan 10, 2006

Are you guys talking about the aromotive 1000 pump?

Those things are crap in my book. I run Magna Fuel Pumps.

Also I have a tweeker in my 67 coupe and for what it is, I do agree it to be better than having to have someone chip tune it. Then being stuck to that tuner forever. It takes a few hours to learn how to do things and of course a few more to figure out what you did wrong LOL.

Turbo 68 fastback... carb or efi?

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