Turbo Build

Nikia · Sep 17, 2014

You all have been a great help. my what intake should i go with and what size injectors? any front end work i should do?

MY 85 GT · Sep 17, 2014

I would go with the holley system Max thats what i should have went with and go with 60s...i have a trickflow street heat and 42s i mean it runs great but always can do better...LOL...

2000xp8 · Sep 17, 2014

24's, 30 max, 60's force you into a tune that a mild hci car doesn't need.
The systemax intakes aren't great for NA 302's, get something a little smaller and 302 orientated then swap it out whenever you get your power adder.

FastDriver · Sep 17, 2014

42s will support 500rwhp, and will tune fine at lower power levels. Driveability will be fine.

Nikia · Sep 18, 2014

Is there any other option then going with a
3500-4000 dart short block? Had no idea they cost that much.

Noobz347 · Sep 18, 2014

Nikia said:
Is there any other option then going with a
3500-4000 dart short block? Had no idea they cost that much.

I paid $1800 for my Dart Sportsman. I'm not sure exactly how much was spent on machine prep. A lot of money but not out of reach for most.

The trick is to try and buy components for your build that will easily swap over to the Dart if you plan to one day have one.

What I mean is:

Buy components for your current build (heads, intake, exhaust, blah and so on) that will support the build that you want to one day have in the Dart. This way you're not buying heads (and other parts) again down the road.

There is obviously a point where this becomes silly if the motor you INTEND to build is a huge MONSTER compared to the one you're able to build now.

Nikia · Sep 18, 2014

thats what i was thinking. like forged inter nals (low to mid compression for boost later) , nice alum heads, f303 cam, bigger intake, injectors, rails, radiator, blah blah. I dont want to buy to much I cant put on the dart later, stick with the stock block this year, have a nice 350+ hp 331. bottom end needs done soon. Everyone has there own opinion ob what a monster is, but after the dart and boost id like to be between 500-600hp. this is down the road road. i just want to buy nice enough so that i dont have to re-buy more then i need.

Noobz347 · Sep 18, 2014

Nikia said:
thats what i was thinking. like forged inter nals (low to mid compression for boost later) , nice alum heads, f303 cam, bigger intake, injectors, rails, radiator, blah blah. I dont want to buy to much I cant put on the dart later, stick with the stock block this year, have a nice 350+ hp 331. bottom end needs done soon. Everyone has there own opinion ob what a monster is, but after the dart and boost id like to be between 500-600hp. this is down the road road. i just want to buy nice enough so that i dont have to re-buy more then i need.

I would go very minimalist on your current block internals. You will likely get new internals for the new motor.

Replace the bearings and throw some pistons and rings in. Keep everything else. You can always sell what will be a GOOD stock block to recoup some your costs for the rebuild.

Transferring internals would not be my first choice. All the bolt-on parts though... Buy them so that they're reusable.

2000xp8 · Sep 18, 2014

Going from a 300rwhp NA stock shortblock setup to something in the 600rwhp range is going to pretty much require replacing damn near every part almost no matter how you do it. It's not too often you see a 600rwhp setup that has parts that were once on a 302.
You could cnc the heads if you buy the right set, but either the 302 is going to suffer from parts meant for an aspirated stroker or vice versa.

This is the exact reason i suggest getting the hci done now and building something on the side to replace it.

stangboy · Sep 18, 2014

2000xp8 said:
Going from a 300rwhp NA stock shortblock setup to something in the 600rwhp range is going to pretty much require replacing damn near every part almost no matter how you do it. It's not too often you see a 600rwhp setup that has parts that were once on a 302.
You could cnc the heads if you buy the right set, but either the 302 is going to suffer from parts meant for an aspirated stroker or vice versa.

This is the exact reason i suggest getting the hci done now and building something on the side to replace it.

I beg to differ on that statement. @NIKwoaC put a set of TrickFlow 205s, CnC'd TrickFlow R intake, 90mm TB and a small custom cam on a stock bottom end 302 and made nice power. Those heads and intake will make very nice power on a 363.

2000xp8 · Sep 18, 2014

stangboy said:
I beg to differ on that statement. @NIKwoaC put a set of TrickFlow 205s, CnC'd TrickFlow R intake, 90mm TB and a small custom cam on a stock bottom end 302 and made nice power. Those heads and intake will make very nice power on a 363.

While that was a cool build, i still don't know if it's worth the trouble, just to re-use parts.
The cam still has to go.
The heads may run into clearance issues (along with being expensive), and as someone that has notched pistons, not something i'd be willing to do again on a 302. (i'm truly not sure on this one, others or nik should know).
Intakes, tb's and injectors pretty much sell for whatever you paid for them (if you bought used), so it isn't a big deal to sell them off.

Also if it's not really well thought out and put together you risk having no low end. Which is fine on a car that see's alot of track time, but it's a pita on the street.

Keep in mind, i'm very much a build for what you have now type of guy.
For every person that comes here with big goals, i'd bet less than 10% get there.

FastDriver · Sep 19, 2014

Nik's combo is an exception and very rarely do you see someone willing to go against the grain and put a set of heads like that on a 302. Those would be awesome on a big stroker, but they were expensive as hell for an n/a 302 build. They are not worth the money unless you are sure you'll eventually go all the way. I hope, and believe, that Nik will one day. To tell someone else to go spend his pennies on a set of TEA ported TW205s is a little ridiculous when the power is going to be pretty similar to much cheaper heads. I'd say you're better off building separate combos right from the start. Plus, Nikia doesn't really know what he's getting into, which is why he just learned that going with a Dart blocked setup is out of the question for his price range. Similarly, so would going with heads like that.

bentley429isBAC · Sep 19, 2014

Nikia said:
Is there any other option then going with a
3500-4000 dart short block? Had no idea they cost that much.

A dart shp block will be slightly cheaper then a sportsman but it will still be about $4,000. A sportsman shortblock complete will be $5,000. Thats with pretty good parts, not the best of the best. Will get you into the 1,000-1,200 hp range easily.

Nikia · Sep 24, 2014

buying a radiator on friday. any suggestions

2000xp8 · Sep 24, 2014

There are alot of adequate radiators out there.
I ran a pepboys 3 row for pretty much the life of my car and never had a leak or cooling issue.

Some like the mishimotos since they pretty much take it back forever.
Others like fluidyne.

If money was no object, for sure i like Ron Davis.

Nikia · Sep 25, 2014

ive been looking at the mishi's. lot of price differences online. any places you know that have fair prices?

Nikia · Oct 6, 2014

Got the radiator. Now I have 1200-1300 for heads. I want some heads that will be good now with h/c/i and later on with boost. ive decided to go with the f303 cam and have not picked an intake.

2000xp8 · Oct 6, 2014

The choices for heads are simple, TW's or afr 165's.

With a good h/c/i setup, I wouldn't worry so much settting it up for a supercharger later, a supercharger or turbo is easily going to put most combo's into block splitting power.

While i've never used and F cam, it isn't known for it's low end.
No low end on a NA engine can lead to a PITA to drive in traffic.

stangboy · Oct 6, 2014

If you get AFRs get the 185s, the 165s don't leave much room for growth. I had 185s, F303 cam and a Performer intake on my stock bottom end 94 GT and it ran great. The F cam had a nice idle too even tho it was 114 LSA. Of course there are better off-the-shelf cams out there. Look at the Comp Extreme Energy cams. I've heard a lot of people make decent power with them.

FastDriver · Oct 6, 2014

I think AFR185s may require piston notching. AFR165s will be right at home on a 302. Also, don't worry about heads that do well under boost. Optimize the heads for n/a, and they will work fine with boost as long as your compression ratio isn't high.

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