Tweecer newbie question

RS200 · Apr 17, 2006

I just switched from my stock injectors to 30#ers with a calibrated C&L 80mm mass air unit. I also just converted to mass air using a stock harness from a mass air car, and I also just converted to a Cobra intake. Since I did all of that, it runs like crap. How can I keep it from running pig rich?

airbag · Apr 17, 2006

tweecer

buy a pro-m mass air meter

Bad92GT · Apr 17, 2006

airbag said:
buy a pro-m mass air meter

could be that and a number of problems.. is it surging? or what? need more details than just "Runs like crap" lol

RS200 · Apr 17, 2006

My apologies. Yes, it surges, irratic idle, and it stalls...feels like a vacuum leak, but it isn't. When starting the car, it goes up to 2000, then drops right down to 800 or 900 for a few seconds, then goes down again and surges. I have to floor it to keep it from stalling at slow speeds, etc.

vristang · Apr 17, 2006

RS200 said:
I just switched from my stock injectors to 30#ers with a calibrated C&L 80mm mass air unit. I also just converted to mass air using a stock harness from a mass air car, and I also just converted to a Cobra intake. Since I did all of that, it runs like crap. How can I keep it from running pig rich?

I only have about a months experience with the tweecer but will do my best to help.
I feel your pain.

We need to know what computer you have.
Since you converted to mass air, I hope you have an A9L or X3Z.
Also need to verify the MAS sensor is from a stock 55mm maf application.
If you can let us know where you got these parts.

Next, what maf transfer are you using?
Did you change the fuel injector settings when you changed injectors?
Is it just running rich at idle, or at all times?
OR does it run like mine did for a while, and run so rich that it barely idles?

Sorry to answer your one question with 10 more, but it will help to narrow down the problem.

jason

vristang · Apr 17, 2006

Where is your idle set?

RS200 · Apr 17, 2006

I bought the ECU from a parts supplier like Auto Zone, etc.. it's an A9P for automatics. It's one of those brand new / remanufactured units. The MAS is indeed from a 55mm application, from a 5 speed 1989 GT that I parted out. The C&L mass air meter is brand new in the box, but it doesn't have a flow chart.

I haven't touched the twEECer settings yet, because I don't know what to change, and what to change to.

It runs rich all the time, black smoke can be seen at idle (I don't know a specific RPM)...stalls frequently.

rickd93_lx · Apr 17, 2006

you might need a larger fuel pump.

RS200 · Apr 17, 2006

I have a Walbro GSS340 (255lph) standing by for the supercharger, but if it's running rich, that can't be the problem, can it? I also just realized that I have absolutely no clue where the fuel pressure is set...

Bad92GT · Apr 17, 2006

well i suggest just using Jrichkers surging idle check list.. if you try all of it and it doesnt work.. ask again..

vristang · Apr 17, 2006

I have to ask just to make sure I know exactly what we are talking about here.
What parts are on the car now?

I see 30lb injectors
80mm C&L (what color sample tube? C&L calls out Orange?)
http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/clsampletubes.htm
http://www.cnlperformance.com/calibration.html
You have not changed the MAF Transfer or Injector settings with the TwEECer?
A9P computer

If the C&L is not cal'd for the injectors then it will never run right until you dig into the MAF Transfer, and Injector Settings.

Your fuel pressure and timing should be set to stock. 39psi and 10*.
All compensation from there will be done with the TwEECer.

You will also want to mechanically adjust your idle. There is a procedure for that, but we should focus on the rich condition first.

jason

vristang · Apr 17, 2006

The TwEECer user manual can be downloaded here.

http://www.tweecer.com/downloads.htm

I have several links on my website that will get you started on learning to use the TwEECer.
Your going to have to dig in and start doing some serious reading for all to make sense, but it is very fun reading.

http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/index.htm
The TwEECer Downloads/Links page is where you want to go.
Pay attention to FAQ sections on the forums you go to. They are very helpful.

jason

RS200 · Apr 18, 2006

vristang said:
I have to ask just to make sure I know exactly what we are talking about here.
What parts are on the car now?

I see 30lb injectors
80mm C&L (what color sample tube? C&L calls out Orange?)
http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/clsampletubes.htm
http://www.cnlperformance.com/calibration.html
You have not changed the MAF Transfer or Injector settings with the TwEECer?
A9P computer

If the C&L is not cal'd for the injectors then it will never run right until you dig into the MAF Transfer, and Injector Settings.

Your fuel pressure and timing should be set to stock. 39psi and 10*.
All compensation from there will be done with the TwEECer.

You will also want to mechanically adjust your idle. There is a procedure for that, but we should focus on the rich condition first.

jason

Yes, I have the orange sample tube, and red 30# injectors. I also have no idea how to change the MAF Transfer with the twEECer. Fuel pressure checked in at 33 psi today, and the timing is stock. I got it to idle as well, but it's still running very rich. When I load up CalCon, none of the data figures appear from the dashboard config. So, I guess my problems are:

A) Finding out what my engine is doing exactly
B) Figuring out how to fix the A/F.

ninety15.0 · Apr 18, 2006

Well you need to adjust a lot of stuff on the scalar menu aswell. You changed intakes...so i think you might need to change the manifold volume scalar. (not sure if you can change this on the A9 but you can on the T4MO) Download someone elses tune that has a similar setup to you and change your scalars accordingly. You also need to set the MAF transfer which is going to be on one of the maps/tables. You also need to change the injector size. Theres no real way to change the AFR accurately without a wideband sensor. I know there is a scalar to set the AFR but it doesnt do a good job of regulating it. It's been like a year since i have done any serious tuning with the tweecer...but i know you can jump on that yahoo forum and get some good help. good luck man

RS200 · May 12, 2006

Back from the dead...almost!

My car still runs like garbage, but I can still drive it short distances. Things I adjusted:

-Injector slopes (high to 34.5 and low to 30)
-I gave the MAF transfer a guess by calculating 30lb using the 36 and 42 charts. This is what the made the car half driveable.

The day I took it out, the idle still surged (stalled a couple of times), and drained my tank of 91 fast. I'd say I'm running at about 65-80% of power, because I just barely got walked by a 94-98 GT from a roll, and usually I can beat them.

Anyways, I'm going to figure out the idle problem..I think it may be a vacuum leak between the upper & lower intakes, because I had to JB Weld the areas where the previous owner of the intake took a prybar to seperate the two and made some gnarly holes. The idle isn't a concern.

To my dismay, a multiple hour search of google came up blank when it came to a MAF Transfer chart for my application. I rang C&L the other day, and they informed me that they had NO MAF TRANSFER CHART for the 80mm & orange tube, but suggested I step up to the green tube (I'm assuming that also means 42lb injectors). The tech said that it would basically tune itself that way. I can't be dropping $300-$400 here and there on stuff like new injectors to make my crapbox run worth half a damn..I'm not made of money. I'd like to put my ProCharger on this week, but I don't even know if it's worth it if my car won't even run. Help?

vristang · May 12, 2006

Get the MAF Transfer right first

It sounds like the MAF Transfer is still not set up right?
Don't bother tuning anything else until you get this set.
You will need a MAF Transfer from C&L OR create your own using a program like EECAnalyzer ($50).
Regardless of what sample tube you put in your C&L meter, you do not need to change your injectors. The Tweecer allows you to change the MAF Transfer and Injector settings separately.

Look through the list of MAF Transfers available from C&L and find a combo that is close to yours. Then call up C&L and order the correct sample tube, which should be $15-$20.

Once you have a MAF Transfer that matches the hardware on the car you can start the fine tuning process.

jason

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