Tweecer or PMS?

[liquid_02]

I know this has been beaten into the ground, but everything I've read about people putting these in, are for baby motors if you may, 331's, 347's stuff like that, stuff that doesn't really NEED it. My motor is a little more radical, and it's gonna be picky, and just want to know which will be the best for me.

My main concern with Tweecer, is since the motor is going to be so picky with its set-up, I will hurt it before I finally get it tuned due to the lack of user-friendlyness. And PMS, I don't know how much you can really do with it. Can do do as much with PMS as with Tweecer? I'm not intimidated by learning Tweecer at all, just don't want to hurt the thing before I do.

Motor is as follows:

408w 10.1:1 Comp.
Forged Crank, Rods, Pistons (22cc dish) + Girdle
Trickflow intake
Victor Jr. 60cc heads
Hooker Super Comp headers
75mm Accufab TB/Spacer (no EGR)
42# Injectors
1.6:1 Comp Hi-Tek Stainless Full Rollers
Comp custom ground cam (Roller)
HV Oil Pump
MSD Ignition system
255lph Fuel Pump

As you can probably see, I have spent a couple dollars on this motor, and don't want to hurt it, so another ~$500 for Anderson is nothing. It's not all together yet, but I have all the parts sitting on the floor in my garage, in the process of checking piston/valve clearance. I just want to have everything for when I drop her in.

 

[strtrcr50]

Check out http://www.eectuning.org for more info on the tweecer. With BinEditor, it's pretty user friendly.

 

[Foxfan88]

the PMS works good from the people i hear using it, AFAIK all the PMS does is intercept and modifiy the signals from the EEC and change them to get what your desire. in a way its fooling the computer. PMS is more user friendly but you dont get a real insight on how the EEC is working, personally i like to know whats going on and how it works.

the tweecer on the other hand is basically a chip, that you can constantly change the binaries on and have 5 different tune positions. you are actually changing the binary the EEC reads from and as far as i see it, its the best way to tune without going to a standalone system.

i bought a tweecer RT for my car, been tweaking for around a month or so, i was expecting a steep learning curve. but so far it hasnt been to bad, dont get me wrong there is alot of stuff and its very intimidating at first but i'm getting to the point where i am starting to understand how things are working, also got a WB and hooked it up to the old EGR plug and can datalog the AFR with all the other payloads.

honestly i dont why i didnt start tuning sooner, there is just so much you can do the possibilities are endless. i'm very glad i picked up the tweecer.

its not for everyone but if your a gear head, have good mechanical knowledge, and can visualize things and how they happend and affect each other you may like the in depth process of tuning, but some like to just pay a tuner and have it done, which is perfectly fine also!

if you do get a tweecer, dont mess with caledit and calcon, spend the 100 bucks and get binary editor (BE) and eec analyzer (EA) well worth it and are user friendly programs and make things go alot easier and more smoothly.

 

[Grn92LX]

Either will get the job done.

I personally use a PMS and wouldn't even consider anything else. Very user friendly making changes while driving, standalone mode.

 

[Black1987Stang]

I got the Tweecer R/t and love it, you can modify anything and everything...and you learn alot on how everything works

 

[mustangfan1990]

If you ask me I would let a pro do it. Cant go wrong there with someone that does it for a living and has MANY experciences. Do want you want to ,but I would let someone else do it

 

[vristang]

I know this has been beaten into the ground, but everything I've read about people putting these in, are for baby motors if you may, 331's, 347's stuff like that, stuff that doesn't really NEED it. My motor is a little more radical, and it's gonna be picky, and just want to know which will be the best for me.

My main concern with Tweecer, is since the motor is going to be so picky with its set-up, I will hurt it before I finally get it tuned due to the lack of user-friendlyness. And PMS, I don't know how much you can really do with it. Can do do as much with PMS as with Tweecer? I'm not intimidated by learning Tweecer at all, just don't want to hurt the thing before I do.

With a properly calibrated MAF, your setup would run well enought to not hurt anything.
That setup isn't really that much wilder than a well built 347... as far as the ecu cares......

Who spec'd the cam?


Is this your first complete build?
What is the purpose of the motor? Intended use?

 

[liquid_02]

No, this is not my first build, I do this for a living. I've worked in a shop since I turned 16.

Motor is for the street, hence the 10.1:1 compression, expected output of it should be roughly 500hp and 500tq

Comp spec'd it.

Here are the specs:

Gross Valve Lift: 580 intake, 577 exhaust
[email protected] 286 294
Duration@ .050 236 242
Separation: 112.0
Lobe lift: .3630 .3610

Thanks for all your insight guys.

And in answer to letting a "pro" do it, I'd never let anyone touch my motor. They don't care about it, they just want it in and out. They'll probably only make a few passes, burn a chip, and be done with it so they can get to the next car. I'd rather take the time and get a better tune. Time is money remember

 

[mustangfan1990]

No, this is not my first build, I do this for a living. I've worked in a shop since I turned 16.

Motor is for the street, hence the 10.1:1 compression, expected output of it should be roughly 500hp and 500tq

Comp spec'd it.

Here are the specs:

Gross Valve Lift: 580 intake, 577 exhaust
[email protected] 286 294
Duration@ .050 236 242
Separation: 112.0
Lobe lift: .3630 .3610

Thanks for all your insight guys.

And in answer to letting a "pro" do it, I'd never let anyone touch my motor. They don't care about it, they just want it in and out. They'll probably only make a few passes, burn a chip, and be done with it so they can get to the next car. I'd rather take the time and get a better tune. Time is money remember

WOW well you must have some BAD tuners around your area. The guy I go you are there when he does ad watch him the whole time. MY tuner will work on your car ALL day no matter if it take 5 minutes or 5 hours. If he cant get it done in 1 day and it is possible to tweak in he will take 2 days to get it right. HE never touched my motor and he did a GREAT job with my car. 540 rwhp on a 302 isnt bad hp and I would say if he did a bad job the motor would be in pieces by now

 

[vristang]

You have atleast basic knowledge/experience with a motor.
You have the time to spend learning a tuning system.
The motor is N/A...

I say the tweecer is the way to go.
eectuning.org has already been mentioned, but another resource is...
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/

Do some more reading.
Download BE and EA to see what you think (don't even bother with CalEdit/CalCon)
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/downloads/

Look up the GUFB document...
http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/GUFB.pdf
(this is the ford document that defines how the settings in the A9* series ecu's function and interact)


good luck,
jason

 

[liquid_02]

Thanks a lot bud, EECTuning is down ill check it out when it gets back up

 

[Grn92LX]

Check out www.stangtuning.com also for excellent pms tech. Definatly stay away from an expensive one shot deal chip!

 

[vristang]

Thanks a lot bud, EECTuning is down ill check it out when it gets back up

I've been on and off that site all day.... without issues.

Contact me if you keep having issues

 

[Foxfan88]

actually www.eectuning.org/forums is up, the main site is down for me, i havent been on the main page for over a week....

 

[ShortThrow50]

And in answer to letting a "pro" do it, I'd never let anyone touch my motor. They don't care about it, they just want it in and out. They'll probably only make a few passes, burn a chip, and be done with it so they can get to the next car. I'd rather take the time and get a better tune. Time is money remember

sounds like you got some good tuners in your area

 

[2000xp8]

With a properly calibrated MAF, your setup would run well enought to not hurt anything.
That setup isn't really that much wilder than a well built 347... as far as the ecu cares......

I agree, nothing there that the stock computer can't handle.
Get it to run right before you use the aftermarket tuner.
When it's good to go on the stock computer, then add a tweecer or pms and make it better if you so choose.
If you can't get it to run right before the tuner, there is something wrong.