Updated Dyno Numbers

WhiteDevil · Dec 13, 2006

Well i took it to the other place today and let it cool down alittle. The HP was about the same but the TQ is where i expected it to be. This is on a dynojet. This shop pretty much only works on mustangs. They said that they could hear slight pinging from 3,800 to 4,500 and around there im am at like 13.5:1 so they want me to fatten it up down there. They also said that i should ditch my edel heads for some AFR 185s but that is not happening for at least a year. They also said the 1 3/4 long tubes that are on the way will help alot, and so will an MSD 6A box. Ill get the sheets up when i get home from work today.

Numbers:
Hp 326.21rwhp @ 5,400rpm
Tq 354.98rwtq @ 4,500rpm

WHITE94COBRA · Dec 13, 2006

I'm still expecting something more like 350+ hp N/A on this motor. The heads are holding it back. How's the ported Rpm holding up? I suspect thats holding it back a little, maybe not?

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final5-0 · Dec 13, 2006

WhiteDevil said:
Well i took it to the other place today and let it cool down alittle. The HP was about the same but the TQ is where i expected it to be. This is on a dynojet. This shop pretty much only works on mustangs. They said that they could hear slight pinging from 3,800 to 4,500 and around there im am at like 13.5:1 so they want me to fatten it up down there. They also said that i should ditch my edel heads for some AFR 185s but that is not happening for at least a year. They also said the 1 3/4 long tubes that are on the way will help alot, and so will an MSD 6A box. Ill get the sheets up when i get home from work today.

Numbers:
Hp 326.21rwhp @ 5,400rpm
Tq 354.98rwtq @ 4,500rpm

You did datalog during the pulls ... right

I was thinking you had a wb
If so ... I wouldn't give them dyno boys money for what you can do on the street.

From what I've seen, you'll make more power below 13 to 1 so I'd have to agree with them about you being a bit too lean.

No comment on the heads other than they are holding you back a bit.

I can see the larger headers helping for sure.

The MSD ... I don't know about that
that is ... provided your oem stuff is in good shape.

About the ping thing

How does your spark curve look under max load when you dlog?

Grady

Grn92LX · Dec 13, 2006

The ported rpm manifold is good.

I think the exhaust is holding you back for sure. But all in all, you have a mild set up and you asked Ed for a mild low rpm cam.

Does Ed think the 1 3/4" swap is smart? How about a 3" mid pipe? I really need a 3" on mine but I have zero interest in putting more money in my car anytime soon.

mo_dingo · Dec 13, 2006

I am thinking the spark advance is too much at those RPM's (pinging problem) and you just need to take it down a bit. 13.0-13.5 is a good place to be power wise.

Forget the MSD box. Just make sure the ignition system is in good shape and you will be fine.
Scott

WhiteDevil · Dec 13, 2006

Grn92LX said:
The ported rpm manifold is good.

I think the exhaust is holding you back for sure. But all in all, you have a mild set up and you asked Ed for a mild low rpm cam.

Does Ed think the 1 3/4" swap is smart? How about a 3" mid pipe? I really need a 3" on mine but I have zero interest in putting more money in my car anytime soon.

Yeah i know its a mild set up. I was hoping to be in the 340rwhp range but this isnt bad. I emailed ed about the long tubes, he told me to go with 1 3/4 long tubes. They are ceramic 1 3/4 with a 3in collector, i will probably end up with a 3in mid pipe as well(prochamber maybe?). I just need to know if i can still bolt that up to my 2.5in catback because i dont really have the $$ to upgrade that too.

final5-0 said:
No comment on the heads other than they are holding you back a bit.

I can see the larger headers helping for sure.

The MSD ... I don't know about that
that is ... provided your oem stuff is in good shape.

About the ping thing

How does your spark curve look under max load when you dlog?

Grady

I am pretty positive that it is the heads that are killin me. I did not data log because i just wanted to get a quick view of what kinda power i was making to see if the other dyno place was wrong and they were the TQ number was way off.

Im not sure about the MSD either my dad put a digital 6 on his Mach 1 and picked up .2 at the track. But his old stuff probably was just not working up to snuff.

Under max load my spark advance is 33 degrees from 2,500 up

OrangeMustangGt · Dec 13, 2006

whell, my buddy with afr 185 heads/custom cam?/hollysystemax2 intake makes about 330/350 at the wheels....he ended up spending about $10g after he got the engine back from the shop and installed in the car, etc.

As a side note, my car made 330/380tq a 5lbs of boost and that cost me $1800

I think your close in that range...i wouldent expect a whole lot more power?

Grn92LX · Dec 13, 2006

WhiteDevil said:
Yeah i know its a mild set up. I was hoping to be in the 340rwhp range but this isnt bad. I emailed ed about the long tubes, he told me to go with 1 3/4 long tubes. They are ceramic 1 3/4 with a 3in collector, i will probably end up with a 3in mid pipe as well(prochamber maybe?). I just need to know if i can still bolt that up to my 2.5in catback because i dont really have the $$ to upgrade that too.

You will need a 3"x2.5" dr gas X pipe.

The exhaust swap will be well worth it.

WhiteDevil · Dec 13, 2006

View attachment 417345
View attachment 417347

The second pull on there is after they cleaned my MAF which was crazy dirty. After that i ran super ruch 11.8 and richer. That is what im targeting on my tweecer but because it was so dirty i had to target that to get 12.80ish a/f ratio. Now that it reads right im gonna have to redo my tweecer tune to re-richen it up.

final5-0 · Dec 13, 2006

You know John, I was thinking about all you said.

Don't you guys have that watered downed gas in CA

If so, most likely the reason for the ping thing to rear its ugly head
and
all the more reason to fatten things up

You see the dip in tq ... might be a lean transition kinda thing right after the skinny pedal is matted. You would never see it on his data as they have a ton on smoothing or filtering in place. You could definitely see it in your Tweecer CalCon datalogs.

I'm gonna fool around with the numbers later on when I got more time

All in All ... not that bad for a first shake down pull IMHO

Grady

WhiteDevil · Dec 15, 2006

final5-0 said:
You know John, I was thinking about all you said.

Don't you guys have that watered downed gas in CA

If so, most likely the reason for the ping thing to rear its ugly head
and
all the more reason to fatten things up

You see the dip in tq ... might be a lean transition kinda thing right after the skinny pedal is matted. You would never see it on his data as they have a ton on smoothing or filtering in place. You could definitely see it in your Tweecer CalCon datalogs.

I'm gonna fool around with the numbers later on when I got more time

All in All ... not that bad for a first shake down pull IMHO

Grady

Grady thanks for crunching those numbers!!!!

MattZ281LE · Dec 16, 2006

I was looking at my old H/C/I Dyno sheet. I too have that dip at the low RPM. Seems like most guys do.

Your cam seems pretty flat on the torque but still pretty peaky for TQ @ 4200. I would have. Expected HP to still be climbing and not falling off by 5500. I did some tests in Desktop Dyno with my old combo, and just switched out the CI to 347 on mine. Gained alot of TQ but very little hp. I played with some more combos and flow#s Cams etc. Never saw the gains in HP like I did TQ with the strokers.

I found Desktop Dyno to be pretty accurate on NA applications assuming you had the proper cam specs and head flow #s. Mine said With my H/C/I combo I would do 344/370 at the crank. RWHP was 306/330 and the power/tq curves matched, so pretty accurate I think. Not so accurate when I did my blower. Curves where good but the #'s where low. I find it a great tool for checking power range and determining if I would want it on the street.

WhiteDevil · Dec 16, 2006

Cool! Thank sounds like a sweet set up for checking numbers. The car feels great and the TQ is nice. I most definately see a set of ported AFR 185's and a new FTI cam in my future but not for at least a year or two.

Killercanary · Dec 16, 2006

What RPM range did Ed design the cam for?

MattZ281LE · Dec 16, 2006

WhiteDevil said:
Cool! Thank sounds like a sweet set up for checking numbers. The car feels great and the TQ is nice. I most definately see a set of ported AFR 185's and a new FTI cam in my future but not for at least a year or two.

Local guy here has a nice set of RFD ported 185's these made 650+ with a blower on a 349. Hes a good guy and honest too. Wants 1450.00 OBO

So if you can scrape up enough you could get a nice ported set for the cost of a box stock ones...maybe less.

http://www.northernvirginiamustangclub.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8359

WhiteDevil · Dec 16, 2006

Killercanary said:
What RPM range did Ed design the cam for?

2,200rpm to 5,800rpm

smitty_64 · Dec 19, 2006

I guess my numbers aren't really that bad then, John. I expected more too. Turned mine back into the builder to port the lower intake. I'm hoping that'll help a little. And I have found out the E10 gas will drop your HP 3-5% also. I don't feel as bad now though.

94opalgt · Dec 19, 2006

this thread has got me re-thinking about going with a 347. seems like alot of money for so little gain over what i already make with a stock bottom end 302. maybe it's just me expecting more than i should be. i guess i'll just rebuild what i got and drop a procharger on it and be done with it. if i spent that kind of money on a stroker and "only" made 20-40 more rwhp than i do now, i'd be furious. especially considering i'm still running a stock cam in the car now.
all that money spent for that little gain? thank's for saving me from wasting some serious coin guys. don't take this post the wrong way, your cars make good power, just not the well over 350 rwhp i was expecting from a setup like that. i'm right at 300 now with a stock bottom end, set of heads, intake and a stock cam.

final5-0 · Dec 19, 2006

Somehow or the other

I think folks are missing the boat on all these various combos.

Here is a rule of thumb that can help when talking about mostly street applications with a little weekend strip activity mixed in as well.

If the parts are matched up reasonably well ......................
Expect 1 rwhp for every cubic inch

With a good tune, you should have pretty good street manners with a combo setup like this.

More is certainly available ... but you then start to lean more toward the Strip part of Street & Strip which most likely will mean drivability will start to suffer a bit more.

Now in Johns case here, his heads and headers are a bit small and he has some more tuning to do which will bring the numbers up some.

After all ... this is only his first pull after putting it all together.

It takes time to get a new combo all sorted out

Grady

WhiteDevil · Dec 19, 2006

Yeah its my first pull on a new combo. I can still work on the tuning. And im gonna put my better headers and X-pipe on it soon. Its really just mainly my combo not being that great of a combo that is holding the numbers back. With a good set of heads 360+rwhp is not out of the question. The cam is mild passed Cali emissions and idles and drives better than my H/C/I did.

Also you cant just look at peak numbers. Im over 300rwhp from 4,500rpm to 6,000rpm. Your combo just TOUCHES 299rwhp at PEAK. Also the TQ curve is nice and flat. But most strokers arent gonna beat a forged blown 302. So if you can i would go that route. I was gonna rebuild my shortblock anyway so i didnt do it JUST for the stroker.

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