viper t56 in 5.0 ?

seijirou said:

Can you tell me about what you did with the input shaft? Did you swap yours, does the 03 cobra one just work? What about pilot/throwout bearings?

The one answer I have not been able to find is how standard t56 guts are. T5's for example have alot of different guts in them from car to car, so you can't necessarily just change an input shaft for your application. I can get my hands on an early 90's camaro t56 but i know the input shaft is wrong.

I could -maybe- use a chevy clutch disk with ford fly/pressure plate but i'm not 100% sure that'd work, plus I don't know that it will work with the pilot bearing etc. etc.

Since you managed a swap on your own I figured you might know some of this more detailed info.

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Yeah man, I did the swap last winter and I invested tons and tons of time in learning about T56 trannys and everything involved in the swap. I don't have much time right now, but I will get back on later today and post up some detailed info, I even have pics of when I did my swap.

caseywan said:

Yeah man, I did the swap last winter and I invested tons and tons of time in learning about T56 trannys and everything involved in the swap. I don't have much time right now, but I will get back on later today and post up some detailed info, I even have pics of when I did my swap.

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Thank you sir, any and all information you can give me I'll gobble up greedly. Even the tiny stuff you wouldn't think anybody would care about.

seijirou said:

Can you tell me about what you did with the input shaft? Did you swap yours, does the 03 cobra one just work? What about pilot/throwout bearings?

The one answer I have not been able to find is how standard t56 guts are. T5's for example have alot of different guts in them from car to car, so you can't necessarily just change an input shaft for your application. I can get my hands on an early 90's camaro t56 but i know the input shaft is wrong.

I could -maybe- use a chevy clutch disk with ford fly/pressure plate but i'm not 100% sure that'd work, plus I don't know that it will work with the pilot bearing etc. etc.

Since you managed a swap on your own I figured you might know some of this more detailed info.

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When I did my swap, I was on the phone for hours with Red Roberts from McLeod, who is like the president or something, and he was extremely helpful and knowledgable. So just call their tech line if you have any questions about their products or the swap or anything.

Ok first of all pretty much all the standard T56's are the same, the LT1 and LS1 T56's may be a little weeker because they have an aluminum 3/4 shift fork which breaks from time to time and is not as strong as the steel 3/4 shift fork in the Cobra and Viper T56. The LT1/LS1/Viper T56's have a 26 spline input shaft which is a little stronger than the Cobra 10 spline.

The LT1/LS1 and the Viper T56 have a close gear ratio which is 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50 and they have the .5 6th gear which is nice for highway or if you want to run 4.10 gears. The Cobra T56's have a wide gear ratio which is 2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/.80/.62.

What makes the Viper T56 stronger is that it has a 31 spline output shaft, carbon fiber syncros and blocker rings, all steel shift forks, bronze fork pads, and billet slider keys. I was thinking of uprading my tranny to Viper spec this winter which would cost about $800 in parts, and then I would have the .5 6th.

I was originally going to use an LT1 T56 which I got locally for $400, but decied to use an 03 Cobra T56 with 20k which I picked up off Corral for $800 shipped. I bought McLeod scattershield bell that I was going to use, but decided to go with one of Mcleod's adapter plates. At the time, the only adapter plate they had was one that allowed a Toploader bellhousing to bolt to a T56, but I think they now sell a plate that allows a T5 bell to bolt to a T56. I had to adapt the toploader bell to fit the 5.0 clutch fork and pivot ball and also had to fab a mount for the clutch cable since the toploader used a push style clutch fork.

With the Cobra T56 the shifter comes up in the exact spot it should. But with an LT1/LS1 T56 the shifter would be about 4 inches further back. Mcleod can make a custom offset short throw shifter for about $225, but I was just going to make my own.

If you use an LT1 T56, the input shaft is way to short and you would have to swap it out with an LS1 T56. You could actually make good on that because the LT1 input shafts are not made anymore and are getting very hard to find, so you can sell them for around $400 and buy an LS1 input shaft for about $100 or less.

Mcleod also told me that the Cobra input shaft is too short and would have to be swapped with and LS1 input shaft, which is what I did so I could have a 26 spline input shaft. But when I recieved the the Mcleod scattershield bellhousing it was about 1" less deep than the T5 bell, which means that the input shaft would be an 1" closer to the crank/pilot, so if you use that bell with a Cobra T56 you may not have to change the input shaft. I bought a special pilot bushing from Mcleod that would fit a Small block Ford, and an LS1 input shaft.

From what I could tell, all T56 bellhsougs are interchangeable among the different Ford and GM T56's, although that is not what I was told. The adapter plate I had bolt to both the LT1 T56 and the Cobra T56 as did the Mcleod scattershield bell.

As for the crossmember and mounts, I did a little bit of fabrication. Where the crossmember needs to mount with a T56 is about 4" further back than the stock mounts which are spotwelded on. So I used 4 cylinder Mustang crossmember mounts, which have a single bolt that go through the frame, so I just drilled some holes for them. But then the V8 crossmember was not wide enough to fit, so I got an extra V8 crossmember from the junkyard and cut both of them both and welded them back together at the right length.

I had my driveshaft shortened for about $100, and it will need a different yoke (can't remember the spline count off hand).

A lot of people don't know what to do with the reverse lockout cylinoid, but I just took it off and put a plut in it. It's pretty much impossible to put the tranny in reverse while driving.

I'll post up some pics in the next thread here. If I was unclear on anything just let me know.

Adapter plate




McLeod Scattershield




Modifications done to the TopLoader bellhousing to allow for the clutch cable.






Reverse solynoid deleted



Crossmember modifications and 4 cylinder crossmember mounts

Wow good thread. I am saving this one! Nice job Casey!

niklid05 said:

Wow good thread. I am saving this one! Nice job Casey!

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Thanks, I've been meaning to do a writeup on it for a while now just so others can know how I did it. Like I said my total costs including MGW shifter, Centerforce clutch, and a Ram aluminum flywheel, were less than $1500.

Another issue I just remembered is the speedometer. All T56's have elctronic speedometer plugs on them, and our Fox's use a mechanical speedo cable. There are a few options here -

I have seen kits to convert the T56 to a mechanical speedo which I believe are about $150, which involves milling and other modifiation to the tailshaft, but as I understand really isn't too hard to do.

There is also a company out there that sells a little box that converts the elctronic speedo signal to a mechanical cable, the company is called Abbott Enterprises and the box is called a Cable X converter or something like that and it costs about $300.

What I decided to do myself was just convert to an elctronic speedometer. I bought an MC Machine guage panel and did all Autometer guages, which cost me about $400. I thought I'd just invest the money that way in getting a little aesthetic looks as well.

Can you get some picks of the cluster too I really really wanna do this next summer. t-56, centerforce clutch, mgw shifter and autometer cluster. And I sure as **** didnt wanna pay 3k. Does the Autometer speedo plug right into the tranny?
I see youre running 3.73's, what kind of mileage do you get?

once again awesome job.

niklid05 said:

Can you get some picks of the cluster too I really really wanna do this next summer. t-56, centerforce clutch, mgw shifter and autometer cluster. And I sure as **** didnt wanna pay 3k. Does the Autometer speedo plug right into the tranny?
I see youre running 3.73's, what kind of mileage do you get?

once again awesome job.

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I don't have any pics of it in the car, but I could take some tomorrow and post them up. I saw some pictures over or Corral of guys guauges with the MC Machine panel and I just fell in love with it and had to do it exactly like he did. I got my MC Machine panel for $50 (instead of the regular $150) because he only had slightly damaged plates left. It was just barely scratched in a few places on the front, but I painted mine black anyways so you can't even see it. If I would have done it over I would have had it annodized black though So if you order from him, maybe ask him if he has any discounted damaged plates, although he was a little reluctant to sell it to me.



For the electronic speedo, Fox's equipped with cruise control have an electronic speedo sensor that plugs into the mechanical plug on the side of the tranny. This existing electronic speedo plug on my Fox plugged right into the electronic speedo plug on the T56. Then I just tapped into that wire, which runs under the drivers seat and up through the firewall. I believe that would be the same plug whether it be a Ford or GM T56.

I get about 25mpg highway and 19mpg in the city. I also have not smog pump, water pump, or fan (electric waterpump and fan), so that helps on mileage a little bit, and I have a Crane ignition system with CD which supposedly helps a little with gas mileage.

caseywan said:

I don't have any pics of it in the car, but I could take some tomorrow and post them up. I saw some pictures over or Corral of guys guauges with the MC Machine panel and I just fell in love with it and had to do it exactly like he did. I got my MC Machine panel for $50 (instead of the regular $150) because he only had slightly damaged plates left. It was just barely scratched in a few places on the front, but I painted mine black anyways so you can't even see it. If I would have done it over I would have had it annodized black though So if you order from him, maybe ask him if he has any discounted damaged plates, although he was a little reluctant to sell it to me.



For the electronic speedo, Fox's equipped with cruise control have an electronic speedo sensor that plugs into the mechanical plug on the side of the tranny. This existing electronic speedo plug on my Fox plugged right into the electronic speedo plug on the T56. Then I just tapped into that wire, which runs under the drivers seat and up through the firewall. I believe that would be the same plug whether it be a Ford or GM T56.

I get about 25mpg highway and 19mpg in the city. I also have not smog pump, water pump, or fan (electric waterpump and fan), so that helps on mileage a little bit, and I have a Crane ignition system with CD which supposedly helps a little with gas mileage.

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Awesome! I have a 4cyl car and it was either you or someone else(might have been on corral) that said something about the 4cyl autos having the same mounting place as for the t-56. Is this true? I have a 4cyl notch that I am trying to sell but its straight and no body rot so I am deciding whether to get rid of it or not.

Also my brother has a friend that has a t-56 out of a 95 T/A. He just had it rebuilt is it worth spending the 1k he is asking for it or should I try and work him down or look for something else? I really want to find something with a .50 6th so I can run 4.10's or steeper. My brother had a 93 z28, he had 4.10's and said he was taching around 2200 at 85mph. That would be awesome!

Viper spec: is that just carbon syncros or what? How easy is it to build a "viper spec" tranny? I want something that I know is gonna last because we plan on building a forced induction 351 based motor, that is gonna see the track and be driven a lot on the street. Thats why I want the .50 6th gear.

I I just want you to spill your guts on your entire swap It would really help me and a lot of other people out and probably make for a damn sweet sticky!

zackie Chan said:

ok i've done so research but i got another question for you guys. The t56 in the vettes is bolted to the rear end so it is still the same tranny just missing the tail housing?

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The Corvette T56 is totally different. I think it uses the same gears and interenals, just setup differently, but the case is totally different. No way of really using it in anything but a Vette without serious serious fabrication.

niklid05 said:

Awesome! I have a 4cyl car and it was either you or someone else(might have been on corral) that said something about the 4cyl autos having the same mounting place as for the t-56. Is this true? I have a 4cyl notch that I am trying to sell but its straight and no body rot so I am deciding whether to get rid of it or not.

Also my brother has a friend that has a t-56 out of a 95 T/A. He just had it rebuilt is it worth spending the 1k he is asking for it or should I try and work him down or look for something else? I really want to find something with a .50 6th so I can run 4.10's or steeper. My brother had a 93 z28, he had 4.10's and said he was taching around 2200 at 85mph. That would be awesome!

Viper spec: is that just carbon syncros or what? How easy is it to build a "viper spec" tranny? I want something that I know is gonna last because we plan on building a forced induction 351 based motor, that is gonna see the track and be driven a lot on the street. Thats why I want the .50 6th gear.

I I just want you to spill your guts on your entire swap It would really help me and a lot of other people out and probably make for a damn sweet sticky!

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About the 4 cylinder mounts, I don't know if the factory location in the 4 cylinder cars are in the same place as needed for a T56 or not. My car is a factory V8, I just got some 4 banger mounts from the junkyard, and put the mounts where I needed them by drilling holes through the subframe. That's all you would have to do on 4 cyliner Mustang too if they're not already in the correct place. It makes me feel a little uneasy that both of those mounts are just held through the subframe by one bolt each, so this winter I am planning on beefing both the mounts up and welding them in, as I will be adding a lot more HP this winter as well.

$1000 isn't too bad at all for a rebuilt T56. If that one is out of a Camaro then it does have the .50 6th gear that your looking for. Does he want 1k for just the bare tranny, or does he have the LT1 bellhousing and other conversion parts to go with it that most people have? Because the bellhousing itself is worth over $100 on eBay and if he has the rest of the conversion parts you could sell them for $400-600 which would make that a smoking deal.

As far as I know, Viper spec T56 just has all the uprgaded goodies that anyone can buy and put in - steel 3-4 shift fork, all carbon fiber blockers and syncros, bronzy fork pads, and billet slider keys. It also has a 31 spline output shaft which is said to be much stronger, not sure if they say it's stronger just because of the spline count or if it is actually a stronger composition piece of metal or hardened. Somebody once told me that the Viper spec T56 has hardened internals, such as cryo treating or micronite finishing, but I don't think that is true.

Another 2 very, very helpful sources I have found are www.T56rebuilds.com out of Houston TX, and Liberty's High Performance Products out of Taylor MI, which is the company that makes the Liberty Pro-shifted Tremec transmissions.

Joe at T56rebuilds.com spent tons of time on the phone with me and went out of his way several times to help me out. They deal mostly with GM T56 and vehicles, but since the T56 internals are all the same he was able to help me out a lot. They sell everything you need to upgrade to a Viper spec and they sell all kinds of rebuild parts and they have extremely good prices, the best I found anywhere, even cheaper than eBay.

I can't remember the the name of the guy I talked to a lot at Liberty, but he was extremely friendly and helpful and helped me out a ton even when I did not buy anything from them. They sell a Viper output shaft kit which allows you to put the Viper 31 spline output shaft into a Cobra T56 and put in the .50 6th gear without changing all the other gears to the close gear ratio setup (which is what the Viper and other GM T56 is). I am planning on buying that kit maybe next winter and I think it costs about $600.

Spill my guts on the entire swap?? I'm confused I though I had pretty much already done that. You read through my post on the first page right?

Does the D&D kit require welding to relocate the cross-member?

Ryanwoodz said:

Does the D&D kit require welding to relocate the cross-member?

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They used to include the Kenny Brown brackets which were just bolt on (or weld on if you chose to), but now with Kenny Brown down for a bit I don't think they have those anymore and I just read an article about them having brackets that required welding. They looked to be pretty much the same as the system I fabbed up using the 4 cylinder mounts, just welded instead of bolted.