Vortech or Roushcharger

[LV51FER]

Hi there.

A little help in my decision process please.

First off, I'm a Mustang GT owner in the UK and want to supercharge it. The options in the UK are limited and boil down to a centrifugal type Vortech with chargecooler, allegedly good for 462bhp or a Roushcharger twin screw type claiming 430bhp and 385lb ft of torque.

Those are the only two choices over here so forget the rest, better or not.

It's been difficult to pin down figures on the Vorttech as the car they've been circulating round the magazines has more than the stock output (defeating the object really). The Roush is about £500 more than the Vortech here in the UK but that may be academic in absolute terms. Just take it they cost the same for now.

OK. The Vortech, as I understand it, will produce more power higher up the rev range whereas the Roush will give a far more linear delivery and I'm not necessarily concerned with outright power, more the quality of the installation. Needless to say, the man from Roush Uk says his is far better quality than the VOrtech but Edmunds seemed to think the Vortech was excellent quality so that may be crapola

The advantage with the Roush is that they purport to offer a warranty on the driveline if it breaks whereas I don't think Vortech do.

I'm constantly amazed by the sheer lack of information you guys in the US have access to. There are many bald claims for "this power" and "that power" and not a shred of evidence to back it up, no graphs, no guarantees, nothing, just a retailer offering a high price product with a few vague lines of description. Really not much use to anyone, not even their websites say much. It doesn't help when the Roush pictures show some fancy painted item that clearly isn't the product you get.

So what do you guys think? Vortech centrifugal or Roush screws? My immediate reaction was the Vortech but then don't Ford use a Whipple twin screw on the GT? Does that mean it's better?

 

[royb]

I'd go with the Roushcharger since you are not concerned about total power.
I have a 05 GT and have the saleen twin screw unit. The torque is great on the street.

Ford uses eaton roots because eaton fits into Fords supply chain and can meet their demands/rules. It doesn't mean they are better.

is your Stang Right hand drive?

 

[LV51FER]

I'd go with the Roushcharger since you are not concerned about total power.
I have a 05 GT and have the saleen twin screw unit. The torque is great on the street.

Ford uses eaton roots because eaton fits into Fords supply chain and can meet their demands/rules. It doesn't mean they are better.

is your Stang Right hand drive?

No, I prefer LHD cars. They do have some RHD conversion but it's pretty much a horrid job. The whole essence of having an American car is the LHD.

 

[subzero05]

The roush kit is a Eaton based blower and not a "twin screw" blower in technical terms.Both kits are good with regards to the roush and Vortech.I have the vortech kit and it is putting down 431 at the tire currently.I preferred the centri-kit because I drive alot on the highway and with this kit I have NO boost on the motor whatsoever while highway driving unless I need/want it..therefore, no additional stress on the motor to reduce engine life like the screw or eaton type kits can.Vortech makes great kits and their history with mustangs is excellent.

 

[hubec]

Hey subzero05, what do you mean that positive displacement chargers stress the engine at cruise? Why? I'm not trying to be smart, just curious because I'm planning on getting the Saleen unit, and my main reason for that is because I need a reliable daily driver (with a butt load of power).

 

[subzero05]

a positive displacement blower is just that.It puts a "positive" charge into the engine at all rpm's and although at cruise it is relatively low, it is still there.So, in essence, you are constantly putting boost pressures on the motor,whereas with a CF unit you are only under boost when you need it.IMO, for a daily driver that sees alot of highway travel a CF unit is the better choice, but again that is IMO.

 

[hubec]

Subzero, I think you're operating under a common misconseption here. A supercharged engine (positive displacement or not) will not have a higher manifold pressure than a NA engine for the equivalent power output. After all if it did you would be generating more power (compressing more air, burning more fuel, generating more hp, and going faster). This is to say that if I'm cruising down the highway at 60 with a NA 4.6 at 7" of manifold pressure, I'd be at the same 7" of pressure with a supercharged 4.6. And thus the engine would be no more stressed.

So what's hapening to the blower then? It is still compressing air at part throttle, it's just that it's compressing very little air at a pressure far below ambient, i.e. it'd be sucking air past the throttle, at 4", compressing it to 7" and feeding it to the engine. The engine would still be getting 7" if it were NA, just with a larger throttle opening.

All that said, the supercharged engine will be a bit less efficient since it has to work so hard to suck in air at such a low pressure past a small throttle opening, not to mention the mechanical loss in just spinning the blower. But that doesn't really stress the engine appreciably (it's just another power robbing accessory), it'll just stress your credit card at the pumps.

 

[subzero05]

My point is simply this.A twin screw design (such as the saleen) initiates boost at low rpm and continues up into the area of 4 grand, thus putting constant "boost" pressure on your engine while crusing.Granted, it is small amounts, but still there.A CF unit is under NO boost pressure until your RPM's get up over about 2500 ish and therefore under cruise where you are about 2000,you are not sustaining boost pressures on the engine unless you want it.Sure, you are still driving the blower as with any SC, but you are not initiating "constant" boost as with a Positive disp. blower.Either way they are both great choices on the stang,it merely depends on what you are looking for.

 

[hubec]

Okay, but again just to be clear; an SC (positive displacement or not) won't have the engine under boost (i.e. manifold pressure greater than ambient) at cruise. So; a twin screw SC'd V8 cruising along won't be under any more "pressure" than a NA V8 or a centrifiugal SC'd V8. After all if it were under more pressure it would be producing more power and accelerating. Yes the twin screw is compressing air at part throttle but it's sucking air in at a VERY low pressure (due to a throttle that's almost closed) and "compressing" it to the same lower that ambient pressure that you'd find in the NA intake manifold (or the centrifiugal SC'd intake manifold) therefore all three V8s are under the same pressure (stress) at cruise.

To sum up with an example, picture 2 mustangs cruising down the highway at a steady 60mph:
1: NA 4.6 V8, throttle at 20%, resulting in a manifold pressure at 10", resulting in a power output of 80hp.
2: Twin Screw SC 4.6 V8, throttle at 15%, resulting in a pre SC manifold pressure at 7", resulting in a post SC manifold pressure at 10", resulting in a power output at 80hp.

So; both engines are under the same pressure, both engine are creating the same power, it's just that the SC'd engine is at a lesser throttle opening.

Whew, that should wrap that up...

 

[willys1]

Well the Roush will last "alot" longer,but be prepaired to pay bookoo bucks!!! Its gotta be 3 times the cost of a Vortex

 

[Wsmatau]

Hi there.

I'm constantly amazed by the sheer lack of information you guys in the US have access to. There are many bald claims for "this power" and "that power" and not a shred of evidence to back it up, no graphs, no guarantees, nothing, just a retailer offering a high price product with a few vague lines of description. Really not much use to anyone, not even their websites say much. It doesn't help when the Roush pictures show some fancy painted item that clearly isn't the product you get.

So what do you guys think? Vortech centrifugal or Roush screws? My immediate reaction was the Vortech but then don't Ford use a Whipple twin screw on the GT? Does that mean it's better?

I'm not sure what you mean about power claims. Sometimes it does take a little research to verify that two different manufacturers are comparing apples to apples (i.e. a 8psi unit on a stock bottom end to another 8psi unit, instead of a 10# unit with 60# injectors) in order to get a more true picture of a comparison between units. But that responsibility falls on the buyer (caveat emptor). And, with all the information on the internet, it's not that difficult a task.
As stated above, the Roush unit is not a twin screw. And although you ruled all others out, I would wait for 3-4 months for the FRPP/Whipple unit to come out if you are concerned about a warrantee. FRPP should be available in Britain (of course so should the Saleen) If your dealership will warrant a Roush they will, most likely, do the same for a FRPP and then you'll have a twin-screw that puts out 460HP.
Just my $.02

 

[celticstanger]

Just to be clear, with the Roush, it isn't "I wanna put a Roush blower on my car. Will you still do warranty work?", it's Roush STATING that the Roush SC COMES WITH A POWERTRAIN WARRANTY. Does this mean ALL dealerships MUST honor the warranty? Dunno. But it DOES mean that at the very least Roush have set something up where SOME dealers will do your warranty work.

F it! I'm gonna go get that piece of info too - where can one expect the warranty to be honored, all dealerships/some dealerships/Roush dealerships only?

 

[subzero05]

Roush has a "supplemental" warranty set up with an outside company who handles warranty claims for them.It is NOT part of the ford warranty plan, but a privately owned firm who supplies warranties on aftermarket performance products installed at the dealer level.I know this because our company has the same warranty program for our products.It is to protect the consumer,manufacturer of the product and the dealer installing it should they opt to offer it to the customer.Charter warranty service is one of the companies who offer this service.Oh, and BTW, don't anyone hold your breath for the whipple anytime soon.They have lost their supplier of blowers from lysholm and a little birdie told me that ford racing wants nothing to do with them now either.

 

[RandyB]

Roushcharger...

I really like the enginering that goes into the Roush kits, so right now that is my frontrunner. Does anyone here have one of these installed on their car already? There doesn't seem to be too much info on them just yet.

 

[bjboudre]

I have the Saleen installed on mine. I bought the JDM Stage II kit and had it installed by Kauffman's Performance. I am very impressed with this kit. It may not be making the most HP and it may cost more, but it is low impact to the motor and looks factory. Kauffman's was surprised at the power it made on only 4.5 lbs of boost once they got it on the dyno.

 

[RandyB]

I have the Saleen installed on mine. I bought the JDM Stage II kit and had it installed by Kauffman's Performance. I am very impressed with this kit. It may not be making the most HP and it may cost more, but it is low impact to the motor and looks factory. Kauffman's was surprised at the power it made on only 4.5 lbs of boost once they got it on the dyno.

The Saleen is another very well engineered kit that I like a lot. It will most likely be between those two if I go the SC route.

 

[Wsmatau]

Roush has a "supplemental" warranty set up with an outside company who handles warranty claims for them.It is NOT part of the ford warranty plan, but a privately owned firm who supplies warranties on aftermarket performance products installed at the dealer level.I know this because our company has the same warranty program for our products.It is to protect the consumer,manufacturer of the product and the dealer installing it should they opt to offer it to the customer.Charter warranty service is one of the companies who offer this service.Oh, and BTW, don't anyone hold your breath for the whipple anytime soon.They have lost their supplier of blowers from lysholm and a little birdie told me that ford racing wants nothing to do with them now either.

Thanks for the information on the roushcharger's warranty program. That is very interesting and backs up what Celtic had said.
I completely disagree with what your little birdie told you though. The supply problem from Lysholm is true, and I imagine FRPP was pretty ticked off. However, they still showcase the Whipple setup on both the Toyo drift car and on the yellow "Dyno Drag Car" they had a SEMA. Whipple is saying thier kit will be out next month (yeah, I've heard that before!) and rumor at SEMA was FRPP Super Power Pack will be out inn Spring '06. If they were going to pull Whipple from the FRPP line I'm sure they wouldn't be touting thier product with all the free advertising, especially at venues as big as SEMA.

 

[LV51FER]

Thanks guys.

Just to clarify, the Mustang is not officially sold in the UK so there are no UK Ford Mustang dealers. There is a Vortech agent and there is Roush who have just set up in the UK but do lots of things other than Mustangs so there are no other superchargers here.

In the end, I ordered the Vortech. It has more power, is more efficient and looks better. Roush very kindly sent me a picture of a stock installation (rather than the flashy painted one you see) and it looks a bit plasticky so fails the aesthetic test.