Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

tannerc91gt · Aug 15, 2014

93TRANSAM said:
I am assuming thats what it will run in general since thats what we're tuning with, with a full tank it should be good for a few hundred miles of cruising I wouldnt consider that useless at all. For just driving or low boost he could always run pump anyway but to each their own if you can afford to run good gas I dont see why you wouldnt.

Didn't mean to offend. It's useless to me. As it's far more expensive (in my area) and harder to obtain (in my area)
I'd imagine he won't be making balls to the walls pulls in it constantly and the need for 100 oct doesn't make sense to me on a regular basis at a much higher cost (in my area)

RacEoHolic330 · Aug 16, 2014

100 octane fuel is technically pump gas near me. There's a place 15 minutes away that sells it at a regular gas station. Sunoco 260 GT. They have leaded race gas there as well. There is also another fuel supply place 10 minutes away that can siphon it into jugs or sell it in 15, 30, or 55 gallon drums. It does cost 2.5x as much as regular gas, but I do like knowing it's the highest quality non-race fuel I can get and I'll never have any issues with getting a bad tank of fuel. It smells really nice too! The car may see pump gas as well, but it's nice to have options locally. A lot of local hot rodders run the 100 octane because their older engines are sensitive to crappy gasoline. Heck, people even put the stuff in their yard equipment. It has a 2 year shelf life in a sealed container, or filled gas tank with a balloon over the vent.

RangerJoe · Aug 16, 2014

That's cool. We have the same problem here that Tanner was referring to. The only place within a 20 minute drive I know of is a small airport, other than that, getting that octane fuel is hard to come by. This level build is unattainable for 99.9% of us on here. So, if you can afford to do it, power to you. I was just curious.

Joe

CarMichael Angelo · Aug 16, 2014

Well, that becomes another one of those "what if I"? situations for me. Premium around here is advertised at 93 octane, and anything more than that, (with one exception) becomes race gas at double that price.
I don't know for sure what boost level I'll be running around with while in non dyno mode, but I do know that it'll take 16-18 lbs to make the power I'm gonna want. Whether or not that is pump premium kind of stuff, I guess time will tell.

The one exception I keep coming around to is, and the "what if I" run E85 question keeps popping up in my head. There are a few stations in the city, enough to make it not too much of an inconvenience to get to, and the cooler running, 100+ octane at slightly more than premium prices keeps me thinking why wouldn't I?

tannerc91gt · Aug 16, 2014

madmike1157 said:
Well, that becomes another one of those "what if I"? situations for me. Premium around here is advertised at 93 octane, and anything more than that, (with one exception) becomes race gas at double that price.
I don't know for sure what boost level I'll be running around with while in non dyno mode, but I do know that it'll take 16-18 lbs to make the power I'm gonna want. Whether or not that is pump premium kind of stuff, I guess time will tell.

The one exception I keep coming around to is, and the "what if I" run E85 question keeps popping up in my head. There are a few stations in the city, enough to make it not too much of an inconvenience to get to, and the cooler running, 100+ octane at slightly more than premium prices keeps me thinking why wouldn't I?

E85 is cheaper than 87 octane almost everywhere I've ever seen it

CarMichael Angelo · Aug 16, 2014

It seemed to me the last time I paid attention to prices down here, the e85 price was closer to premuim. I'll look at that today.

** Edit I just did,...cheaper than 87 by about .15 a gal.

I need to ck more into that. To be sure my pump/reg is alcohol capable, if my injectors are big enough, and if the alum lines I ran can tolerate it.

A5literMan · Aug 16, 2014

madmike1157 said:
It seemed to me the last time I paid attention to prices down here, the e85 price was closer to premuim. I'll look at that today.

** Edit I just did,...cheaper than 87 by about .15 a gal.

I need to ck more into that. To be sure my pump/reg is alcohol capable, if my injectors are big enough, and if the alum lines I ran can tolerate it.

Also test the fuel and make sure it has the correct amount of alcohol. A certain station "around here" was way under and actually about 96-98 "proof". Which obviously can cause a problem if your set for kill @105 oct.

Noobz347 · Aug 16, 2014

Question along these lines:

Is there a meth system involved at all? I don't recall seeing one so I'm asking.

Noobz347 · Aug 16, 2014

RangerJoe said:
That's cool. We have the same problem here that Tanner was referring to. The only place within a 20 minute drive I know of is a small airport, other than that, getting that octane fuel is hard to come by. This level build is unattainable for 99.9% of us on here. So, if you can afford to do it, power to you. I was just curious.

Joe

This coming from an airport, would be leaded. Would it not?

RangerJoe · Aug 16, 2014

I honestly don't know. I just know two people who buy it there, and I have seen the pumps out there the few times I have been by.

Joe

Noobz347 · Aug 16, 2014

Just a reminder...

Pump Gas
Aviation Fuel
Race Gas

all have properties that are different from pump gas other than just octane rating.

RangerJoe · Aug 17, 2014

Just out of curiosity, what's the difference? I'm assuming using the other canbe harmful?

Joe

CarMichael Angelo · Aug 17, 2014

While I'm certainly no chemical engineeer, my understanding is that leaded fuel was designed as a lubricant for the valve seats in early days to prolong their service life. It was also determined to add noxious pollutants to the air, so it was banned in the 70's as a motor fuel for vehicles driven on the street. Race gas, and Av gas still have lead in their chemical composition for the same benefit, but are not outlawed due to a comparably limited usage vs the millions of cars on the streets. Using a leaded fuel in a car equipped w/ catalytic converters is a sure fire recipe for a clogged converter.

Av gas has detonation inhibitors that actually slow down the burn, and make it's usage in a race car/high compression engine less than favorable when compared to using the equivalent octane rated automotive gas (i.e. Sunoco 260).

Alcohol based fuels, (like the E85 I'm considering) burn even slower than AV gas, at at a much lower temp than gasoline. It also takes considerably more of it to do the same job.
Cars running E85 will get significantly poorer gas milage as a result. While fuel consumption is a definite con, the fact that it burns so cool makes the engine run significantly cooler, to the extreme that race cars powered solely on methyl-alcohol do not even need a radiator. The other, obvious pro is the potential 100+ octane rating. It's a very clean burning fuel as well, so the typical carbon, and crud that are by products of gasoline, is non-existent when using E85
Back on the con side, it's corrosive, and your equipment has to pump more of it. There is a very high percentage of moisture in E85, and that moisture typically ends up fouling the engine oil much more quickly than a gas fueled engine. That makes the stuff not compatible w/ every filter/pump/regulator/lines currently in use on a gas powered vehicle. That makes for a little homework to determine what has to be changed/upgraded when considering it as a fuel.

Now, I don't know how I did on my armchair chemistry lesson, but that is how I've always seen it.

93TRANSAM · Aug 17, 2014

E85 isnt avail.in nj except 1 station over an hour away, race gas is all over the place though around here unleaded and leaded lol! Even though my personal cars always use race gas for track and high boost I also fill up with pump just for cruising around and show self control as not to hurt anything. Pump gas is fine for most street stuff that run 10-13lbs of pressure with decent compression ratios at some point when builds get a little more carried away and expensive I dont see any reason not to run the best gas you can it is cheaper than motor parts and most builds like that only see couple thousand miles a year tops.

RacEoHolic330 · Aug 17, 2014

I thought about making my setup e85 compatible when I first started the build, but I had accessibility issues too. The only place nearby to get it is the turnpike service center. The employee entrance is literally 1 mile from my house, but it would be a pain to walk jugs from the entrance to the pumps all the time.

boiler up · Aug 17, 2014

did you ever post what rotating assembly you have in the short block?

btw. i joined stangnet only for this thread lol. i haven't been in any other threads and only come here to read this thread.

on a side note, i found a massive gouge in my cylinder wall. i'm going to be building a 336 na for now on a stock block, and am going to do a very similar setup to yours on the side. when the dart block base is built, i'll start the work on the shell as you did. thanks for the inspiration.

RacEoHolic330 · Aug 17, 2014

Below are the specs for the engine.

331 CI 4.03" bore
Crank - Eagle Internal Balance 4340 3.25" STROKE X 2.10/.927 PIN
Rods - Eagle 4340 3D H-BEAM with ARP 2000 Rod Bolt Upgrade
Pistons - PROBE SRS Series 14.2cc dish
Cam - Flow Tech Induction custom billet steel
Heads - AFR 185's with upgraded springs and seals
Intake - Holley Systemax, no modifications

boiler up · Aug 17, 2014

What length rod? 5.4"?

RacEoHolic330 · Aug 17, 2014

So, I've made a couple of silly mistakes with the car along the way and have done some dumb things here and there. Tonight, however, I made an utterly bonehead move. I was getting my fenders mounted up and had to make new holes for the lower mount in front of the bottom of the doors underneath the rocker panel. I was drilling through the new metal I welded in where the stock pinch weld previously rusted away. All was well until I broke through the other side of the plate and suddenly had fuel pouring all over my garage floor. I completely neglected to remember that I have the fuel lines running along that pinch weld. I managed to drill right through the return line. Easily the dumbest thing I've ever done. It's nothing that 2 fittings and a union can't fix, but it's still something that shouldn't have happened. I was completely sober too.

RacEoHolic330 · Aug 17, 2014

boiler up said:
What length rod? 5.4"?

Yup

Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

I like to dress like a pretty girl

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This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

I leave the horn on while driving

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

I leave the horn on while driving

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

I like to dress like a pretty girl

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I like to dress like a pretty girl

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I like to dress like a pretty girl

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