Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 20, 2014

Much appreciated Kris! Thanks again for your help. I'll have it ready to go next time and make sure she's running strong so we can turn up the wick. I'm more than happy with the power it makes now. A little more can't hurt though

I was hunting around for some solutions regarding the boost issue. Seems like it can be any of the following:
- wastegate issue/bad diaphragm
- too small wastegate spring
- excessive backpressure
- boost leak
- crappy intercooler

The last suggestion came from a tech at Comp. As soon as I told him I had a cx racing intercooler, he groaned and immediately suspected that to be the problem. They have had low boost issues in the past and it was because of a cheap intercooler. He joked that those are radiators, not intercoolers. It figures that the only part on the entire car that I cheaped out on could be biting me in the ass. I'm going to rule out any other possible issues before I consider a custom intercooler from Bell. The Comp tech said it needs to flow 1500 CFM to keep up with the turbo.

The car is only making 5psi on the 10psi spring. If there is a 5psi (or so) drop across the intercooler, I'll know that is a problem. I can easily refeed my PLX gauge to just read off the compressor and then compare that to what the Holley is reading off the manifold. What I don't get it why it won't budge over 15 psi at all. I figured if it were the intercooler, the boost would still climb as I command more from the boost controller. We had it set as high as 32psi and it still made 15psi. I don't know enough about intercoolers to know if they have a point of 'saturation' where it doesn't matter how much boost is going in because they can only flow a certain amount of CFM out.

GroverDill · Oct 20, 2014

RacEoHolic330 said:
Are you happy now, @GroverDill

I am deeper than 40k in mine and your car is on a entirely different level.

GroverDill · Oct 20, 2014

About the intercooler, I am running the largest off the shelf Precision rated for 825 horsepower. It clearly supports well over that

Just FYI

Precision Turbo Complete Air-to-Air Intercooler 053-1020

that one.

Noobz347 · Oct 21, 2014

RacEoHolic330 said:
Much appreciated Kris! Thanks again for your help. I'll have it ready to go next time and make sure she's running strong so we can turn up the wick. I'm more than happy with the power it makes now. A little more can't hurt though

I was hunting around for some solutions regarding the boost issue. Seems like it can be any of the following:
- wastegate issue/bad diaphragm
- too small wastegate spring
- excessive backpressure
- boost leak
- crappy intercooler

The last suggestion came from a tech at Comp. As soon as I told him I had a cx racing intercooler, he groaned and immediately suspected that to be the problem. They have had low boost issues in the past and it was because of a cheap intercooler. He joked that those are radiators, not intercoolers. It figures that the only part on the entire car that I cheaped out on could be biting me in the ass. I'm going to rule out any other possible issues before I consider a custom intercooler from Bell. The Comp tech said it needs to flow 1500 CFM to keep up with the turbo.

The car is only making 5psi on the 10psi spring. If there is a 5psi (or so) drop across the intercooler, I'll know that is a problem. I can easily refeed my PLX gauge to just read off the compressor and then compare that to what the Holley is reading off the manifold. What I don't get it why it won't budge over 15 psi at all. I figured if it were the intercooler, the boost would still climb as I command more from the boost controller. We had it set as high as 32psi and it still made 15psi. I don't know enough about intercoolers to know if they have a point of 'saturation' where it doesn't matter how much boost is going in because they can only flow a certain amount of CFM out.

If your suspicion is correct, then it's because the intercooler lacks the capacity to flow the volume necessary to fill that outlet tube (and everything down-stream) sufficiently to reach any higher. You have pegged the meter, so to speak.

Noobz347 · Oct 21, 2014

GroverDill said:
I am deeper than 40k in mine and your car is on a entirely different level.

So what's going on with your ride lately Grover? Last I'd heard, you were bringing the power levels down from Super Saiyan 3 to SS1.

89stang1 · Oct 21, 2014

congrats! car is a gorgeous beast! you will have the winter coming to sort out things.......the only good part to the motor issue is i dont have to look around to find a new favorite build to follow for a little while good luck wit her brotha.

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 21, 2014

89stang1 said:
congrats! car is a gorgeous beast! you will have the winter coming to sort out things.......the only good part to the motor issue is i dont have to look around to find a new favorite build to follow for a little while good luck wit her brotha.

Thanks man. There will be plenty over the winter even without the engine work. Lots left to do in the interior.

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 21, 2014

Noobz347 said:
If your suspicion is correct, then it's because the intercooler lacks the capacity to flow the volume necessary to fill that outlet tube (and everything down-stream) sufficiently to reach any higher. You have pegged the meter, so to speak.

I don't know know a ton about intercooler and backpressure, but I never thought an intercooler could 'saturate' to the point where it just won't allow any more pressure to get to the engine. We were effectively telling the turbo to make 26 psi and then 32 psi on two separate runs, but were still getting 15 psi both times. Horsepower was within 3 hp each pull. I can understand it being a restriction, but it just seems strange that it would be at 15 psi all the time. There must be more of a link to CFM and pressure. I just need to school myself on it a little more.

GroverDill · Oct 21, 2014

Noobz347 said:
So what's going on with your ride lately Grover? Last I'd heard, you were bringing the power levels down from Super Saiyan 3 to SS1.

Nada, I havent done much of anything to it this year. Put the Cobra rack on it and ran 2 tanks of fuel through it is all.

I have the same Spec stage 3+ clutch and it is very on/off. I still wonder if my tune is also part of the problem but my car is very hard to take off smoothly from a stop and well that makes driving it suck.

I am on the gate spring (15psi) and its still a handful

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 21, 2014

I don't even have a 3+. I have a 3 with the individual 6 puck design. It's very binary. Kris (the tuner) hated the thing. Lol. They were not friends that day.

I made a call to Clutch Dynamics in Michigan. Spent 20 minutes on the phone with Dan talking about his twin disc that they offer. $540 gets me a very nice organic twin disc setup. That's a lot cheaper than a McLeod RST. Dan seems to really enjoy coming up with tweaks to make his clutches perform better than the big name guys. He has a patent on it as well. I discovered them when I was browsing the forums and people seem to be very happy with them. He is also a phone call away if I have any issues. That beats calling a tech hotline at a large company.

Noobz347 · Oct 21, 2014

RacEoHolic330 said:
I don't know know a ton about intercooler and backpressure, but I never thought an intercooler could 'saturate' to the point where it just won't allow any more pressure to get to the engine. We were effectively telling the turbo to make 26 psi and then 32 psi on two separate runs, but were still getting 15 psi both times. Horsepower was within 3 hp each pull. I can understand it being a restriction, but it just seems strange that it would be at 15 psi all the time. There must be more of a link to CFM and pressure. I just need to school myself on it a little more.

I think you're still forgetting the volume portion. With a given pump, you have the option of increasing/decreasing pressure and velocity. As pressure increases, volume decreases and vice versa. Where pressure and velocity meet is at the max volume for the pump (your pump volume is variable based on the spool but does have a max).

You jambed all that air into a big and wide tube. I increased in speed a LOT. The speed increased even MORE when you tried confining it to a smaller space but the pressure within the restriction remained the same (whole enclosed circuit is 15 psi). At the exit end of that smaller space (where it opens into a larger restriction), the power used to push that air can not achieve any more speed through that small space. As a result, you're capped at 15 lbs where. There simply isn't enough power to make that volume of air move any faster through that restriction. The easy answer is to give it more room. The power needed to make even more velocity in the same space begins to grow exponentially.

GroverDill · Oct 21, 2014

Along those same lines I was concerned about the 2.75" inlet/outlets on the inter-cooler and Greg Banish told me it was fine and would not be a problem

I have 3" to the intercooler then 2.75 into the cooler to 2.75 then directly into a 2.75 to 3" reducer to a 3.5" the 4" at the TB

goofy but what can I say it makes power.

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 21, 2014

I smell what you're stepping in Noobz. I appreciate the mini dissertation. Definitely makes more sense now. I hope to get some pre and post-intercooler pressures this weekend.

Noobz347 · Oct 21, 2014

RacEoHolic330 said:
I smell what you're stepping in Noobz. I appreciate the mini dissertation. Definitely makes more sense now. I hope to get some pre and post-intercooler pressures this weekend.

Heh... explanation ended up longer than I'd intended. You probably recall similar discussion back the day when we all started figuring out when OEM fuel rails were too small.

89oem · Oct 21, 2014

Work of art !

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 22, 2014

Noobz347 said:
Heh... explanation ended up longer than I'd intended. You probably recall similar discussion back the day when we all started figuring out when OEM fuel rails were too small.

Oh yes. got real in that thread.

hoopty5.0 · Oct 22, 2014

Id be willing to bet a ham sandwich that the pressure on the turbo side is higher than 15 psi. You essentially have a nozzle and a diffuser back to back, where a nozzle converts pressure into velocity and the diffuser effectively kills the velocity... Since the air lacks pressure and velocity, it is unable to pressurize V2 to the pressure that it once was.

RacEoHolic330 · Oct 22, 2014

Would you even bet a ham and cheese sandwich on a pretzel bun?

hoopty5.0 · Oct 22, 2014

RacEoHolic330 said:
Would you even bet a ham and cheese sandwich on a pretzel bun?

It's been a hot minute since I took thermodynamics, so no. I've been known to be wrong on occasion...
but I think you use PV=nRT and p1v1=p2v2 in some sort of combination to figure out why it isn't doing what it needs to.

Boosted92LX · Oct 22, 2014

hoopty5.0 said:
It's been a hot minute since I took thermodynamics, so no. I've been known to be wrong on occasion...
but I think you use PV=nRT and p1v1=p2v2 in some sort of combination to figure out why it isn't doing what it needs to.

....Yeah, ^^what he said.

Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

I like to dress like a pretty girl

GoldMember

GoldMember

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Stroked and Juiced

I like to dress like a pretty girl

I like to dress like a pretty girl

GoldMember

I like to dress like a pretty girl

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Attachments

GoldMember

I like to dress like a pretty girl

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Mustang Master

I like to dress like a pretty girl

mechanicus terribilis

I like to dress like a pretty girl

mechanicus terribilis

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency