warm weather= death

SilentRaven

New Member
Jul 12, 2004
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Orlando, Fl
alrite guys ive been in these forums for a long time and i know you guys can help me out, I have this re-occuring problem with my 89 Mustang GT. It is stock besides U/D pullies and Open-end k&n filter. When the motor gets run for about an hour in warm weather the performance goes way down. At wide open throttle there is no power above 3k rpm and from there it gets worse, it eventually leads to the car stalling out. Then if u let the car sit for an hour it starts right back up like nothing happened, i pulled codes and got MAF below input voltage. I figured that was the problem, i replaced it and two days later Same Problem. I have replaced cap,rotor,coil,ignition module,EVP, and MAF and now i dont know what to do next. Any help will be greatly appreciated guys.
 
TFI would have been my first guess, but you say it is new. When it wont start, what is missing, fuel injector pulsing, fuel pressure, or spark? Those symptoms can indicate a weak fuel pump. I might check pressure when it wont start.

Good luck.
 
Sounds to me like a weak fuel pump. Purchase a fuel pressure gauge and when the car starts to get weak on power plug it into the shrader valve and get a reading. If you have the cash installing a Fuel Pressure gauge for your cowl or interior is a good investment if not purchase the test gauge for $40-$50.
 
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor
E.) ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
F.) Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire.
H.) Computer

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars


2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html for a description of the test connector. If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay. The fuse links live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.

A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test the injector wiring.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.

a.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
b.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
c.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.


4.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.

A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
 
thanks guys. the only problem with the cranks OK but no start is that if i let the car sit for about 2 minutes it will start then stall out in about 30 seconds so i have to work quick,and if u hold the rpms at about 2k rpms i can fight to keep it alive,so i believe it is in the fuel system i will pressure test it when it happens next, thanks for the help and if anyone has had any run ins like this help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for the list jrichker
 
hate to bring the thread back to life but i finally purchased a fuel pressure and i got these numbers car was also running ok when i pulled these

Key ON, Engine Off: 38 PSI
Car running at idle: 30 PSI
Car at idle W/ FPR unhooked: 40PSI
But the thing is when i pushed in throttle and held to about 2k RPM pressure dropped and held at 26 PSI ???? These measurements were at the Schrader Valve after running the car for about an hour.

Also, KOEO codes are 34 and 91 Both are continuous memory codes
 
Fuel pump can't keep up with the demand of the motor under load. It can make ample pressure when not under load but cannot keep up when the motor is pushed. Sounds like your fuel pump needs to be replaced. Depending on you future upgrades, get yourself a 155, 190, or 255 unit.
 
Id have to agree if it dropped off that much go ahead and put a fuel pump and filter in... Its not hard at all... When picking a fuel pump you should ask yourself what you plan on doing to the car in the future.. Cuz i went with a 255 and that was when my car was basically stock and its worked fine ....But now ive got alot done and am glad i have a 255...

Goodluck
 
Code 34 Or 334 - EGR voltage above closed limit - Failed sensor, carbon between EGR pintle valve and seat holding the valve off its seat. Remove the EGR valve and clean it with carbon remover. Prior to re-installing see if you can blow air through the flange side of the EGR by mouth. If it leaks, there is carbon stuck on the pintle valve seat, replace the EGR valve ($85-$95).

If the blow by test passes, and you have replaced the sensor, then you have electrical ground problems. Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery post. It should be less than 1 ohm.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.

Let’s put on our Inspector Gadget propeller head beanies and think about how this works:
The EGR sensor is a variable resistor with ground on one leg and Vref (5 volts) on the other. Its’ resistance ranges from 4000 to 5500 Ohms measured between Vref & ground, depending on the sensor. The center connection of the variable resistor is the slider that moves in response to the amount of vacuum applied. The slider has some minimum value of resistance greater than 100 ohms so that the computer always sees a voltage present at its’ input. If the value was 0 ohms, there would be no voltage output. Then the computer would not be able to distinguish between a properly functioning sensor and one that had a broken wire or bad connection. The EGR I have in hand reads 700 Ohms between the slider (EPV) and ground (SIG RTN) at rest with no vacuum applied. The EGR valve or sensor may cause the voltage to be above closed limits due to the manufacturing tolerances that cause the EGR sensor to rest at a higher position than it should.

This will affect idle quality by diluting the intake air charge

Code 41 or 91 - O2 indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter.

Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts
 
I was wondering if your new fuel pump fixed the problem. I noticed the title of the post was warm weather = death so I'm not sure how the fuel pump would relate to this. I'm having a similar problem now that it has heated up in Houston and my thoughts go to blaming the underdrive pulleys and not getting enough volts in warmer conditions. Any thoughts?
 
SilentRaven said:
you guys are great im ordering in a walbro 255 tonite hopefully it solves my problems should i get an adjustable fpr also?

Dont get the Aeromotive (imho) it sucks, the thing is too fat and its right in the way of egr, the port for the pressure guage is in a bad spot, etc.... I wish I would have bought the kirban.
:bang:
DD
:flag:
 
well guys the problem is solved and it WAS the fuel pump, i was a little skeptikal myself, but i finally got to Autozone and purchased a fuel pressure gauge you hook to the schrader valve and the next day it was about 80 out and my car started to hesitate and pop, i got it home and it died on me , i quickly got my gauge on and when i turned the key to on, i had no pressure built up in the line, tried to prime and pressure went up very slow, i then let the car sit for about 2 minutes and cranked it, it fought but i managed to keep it alive when i checked pressure was 20 PSI !!! then when i let off the throttle the car died. I replaced with a walbro 255, and i love my mustang again. The car has not died or got close to it since replacing the fuel pump. I run around town in 85 degree weather with my A/C on and drive it like i stole it and have not had even a surge in the idle. I also pull a little harder up top since i was running so lean.But thanks for all the help I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. You guys Rock:hail2: :nice:
 
ddonaca351 said:
Dont get the Aeromotive (imho) it sucks, the thing is too fat and its right in the way of egr, the port for the pressure guage is in a bad spot, etc.... I wish I would have bought the kirban.
:bang:
DD
:flag:

Never had a problem with my Aeromotive, and that was running the bigger SN95 FPR on both the stock 95 setup and the 93 cobra setup with Fox EGR on my 95.