water pump reverse flow???

[sweet03cobra]

I have a 87 notch which is now carbed. I want to dump the powersteering all together. So all I will have is a alt, crank pulley and waterpump. The pump on there now spins the oposite direction I would need to go if I drop now to these three assesories. I hope someone out there nows what I'm talking about. I see other cars set up like this, what do I need, a reverse flow water pump. Anyone know where to get, what kind, part #? Any help please?

 

[crazypete]

A 1983 ford thunderbird 302 water pump. Like $20 at napa or ricerzone. You'll need to eye out the WP pulley bolt holts but otherwise it's a direct bolt in. You'll also need a method of tensioning the belt.

Oh yeah, your clutchfan will no longer work. Keep that in mind that you might need a profrom or black magic electric fan. You could get a fwd rotation flexfan but most people dont seem to be fans of flexfans.

 

[MrKwik]

Or you can just get a tensioner from a straight 6 ford truck hat pulls the other way and leave the water pump and fan alone. I also know you can modify the stock one to do the same thing but I have never done it, nor have I been able to locate any info on how to do it.

Not my car and I hope this cat don't mind me linking to it....but it would end up looking somethig like this.

 

[tjm73]

I'm pretty sure Crown Vic's (including cop cars w/351W's) & Merc Grand Marquies got water pumps that flowed oposite the stock Mustang 5.0 pump and they had clutch fans too. There are 2 different fan part numbers and the difference is the way the fan is shaped. So I thinkthe clutch fan would still work, but you will have to tension the belt and the electric fan is more efficient anyway.

There is another way that requires no new water pump. Do a search for reversing the idler tension pulley. You can disassemble the tenstioner and reverse the spring and run a belt like shown in the pic below.

 

[crazypete]

You can toss the tensioner altogether and get a long bolt and a spacer. Take the alternator off the tensioner bracket and unbolt the tensioner bracket and throw it away. Use your bolt and spacer and slide the bolt through the alternator's sleeve on the side and use the spacer or crazy stack of washers to get the alternator the right distance so it lines up with the belt. The cylinder head lower bolt hole is perfect. Now the alt pivots on this bolt (The PS or AC has a long double threaded bolt in there somewhere). Wedge 2 valvesprings inbetween the alternator case and the thermostat elbow to tension the belt. The belt pulls and the springs push. Much easier setup. Wish I had a pic saved of it here...

Wouldnt the clutchfan push instead of pull now? I thought the blades were directionally angled.

 

[tjm73]

You can toss the tensioner altogether and get a long bolt and a spacer. Take the alternator off the tensioner bracket and unbolt the tensioner bracket and throw it away. Use your bolt and spacer and slide the bolt through the alternator's sleeve on the side and use the spacer or crazy stack of washers to get the alternator the right distance so it lines up with the belt. The cylinder head lower bolt hole is perfect. Now the alt pivots on this bolt (The PS or AC has a long double threaded bolt in there somewhere). Wedge 2 valvesprings inbetween the alternator case and the thermostat elbow to tension the belt. The belt pulls and the springs push. Much easier setup. Wish I had a pic saved of it here...

Wouldnt the clutchfan push instead of pull now? I thought the blades were directionally angled.

I would liek to know more about your tensior replacement idea. I can't visualize your idea, but it sounds promising.

The original fan blades would push the wrong way. The Crown/Grand Marquis fan should work correctly. They are angled the opposite way as the Mustang

 

[GREG91GT]

the only reason they run in reverse is because they run off the back side of the serpintine belt, the ones with the old style v belt run forwards the same way the motor turns.

 

[89MustangGX]

It's not really important, but the stock water pumps on these cars are already "reverse flow" -- what you're talking about on the Thunderbird and Crown Vic are "standard flow."

 

[sn9550]

I just went through this. You'll need a stadard rotation pump from a 79-85 and an ASP 6 groove water pump pulley. The belt length depends on the pulleys you run. Check my site on the photo page for a pic.
I put a pic in "my garage".

 

[crazypete]

Here you go.....It pivots on the lower bolt and the springs keep it taught.

I guess I need to paint my t-stat elbow!

 

[sweet03cobra]

what length belt do I go with, I bought a 33" to start with but haven't got around to putting it on yet. Am I way off?

 

[crazypete]

It's a napa 25(?)-60445 so I'm assuming it is a 44.5 inch belt (not sure about the 25, that number was under the car). But I still run the smog pump.

 

[sweet03cobra]

nope, no smog pump for me, anyone just running the alt and water pump with the belt on the top side of the tensioner? Also, if you run the belt on the top side of the tensioner, then it is really not doing any thing but act as a pulley right?

 

[crazypete]

No, then it pushes up on the belt and tensions it that way. It will still tension. Frankly that whole factory bracket is far far too heavy to be considered an efficient design. Get the march rod or do the trick above and you'll be satisfied.

 

[sweet03cobra]

Well I did it the cheap way last night. I ran the belt on the top side of the idler and used a 35 inch belt, it seems to work pretty good. I'm running it down the track tonight to see if it holds together

 

[tjm73]

Okay I'm going to offer another alternative, but someone will probably tell me I'm crazy.

Ditch the serpentine belt and convert to V-belt. Get the crank pulley, alt pulley and waterpump pulley from a 70-up 302. 69 & older are all 3 bolt pulleys, the 70-up are 4 bolt just like the 5.0 serpentine. Now get the alternator braket set for the 65-68 Mustang. Be sure you have a standard rotation water pump and you are all set.

Would look like this. Sorry for crude drawing. it's simple. It's clean. And it may use an 'old technology' V-belt, but it still works.

I figure it's cost about $15-20 for the bracket kit. About $30-$50 for all the pulleys if you bought them of a recycler yard. and yuou would have to buy a long bolt and length of tube to fab up a spacer on the pivot bolt at the top of the alt. Less than $80 bucks not counting the water pump. Even less if your scrounging skills are decent.

 

[Zero_chance]

Hey TJM, sometimes crazy works man....

 

[5.0tbirdguy]

Sorry to bring back such an old post, couldn't resist adding my 2 cents.

I've seen a v-belt water pump on a reverse rotation truck. It did not overheat or run hot. I'm almost positive the water pump on a 302 flows fine either direction.

I just changed the factory water pump on my '93 tbird. The replacement was the short frpp reverse rotation water pump. The vanes on the factory pump were opposite the frpp pump, as if they used a v-belt impeller. Worked fine till the weep hole started seeping.

'99 Explorer reverse pump and the frpp had an identical impeller.

Having the vanes point the proper direction couldn't hurt. Just saying it will still pump plenty of water, just 'maybe' not as efficiently.

If I changed the rotation on my new 302 water pump I wouldn't waste time and money on another new pump. If it's very old you may as well change it for the proper one.

 

[Michael Yount]

If you go reversing the tensioner just be sure that you get enough of the belt on the water pump pulley to drive it at high rpms.

Also -- terminology warning. What ya'll have been talking about are reverse and standard ROTATION pumps. A reverse FLOW pump is an entirely different animal. The pump flow is exactly the same with standard and reverse rotation pumps -- the impeller is different.

 

[dirtysohc]

I use an old style alternator bracket set-up that you can find cheap and easy in most junk yards. Running these older brackets eliminate any tensioner because you adjust it yourself then tighten the bolts down on the bracket so the belt has tension on it. I then bought a Weiand water pump for older fords that turns in the standard rotation. Then I bought me some March under drive pulleys for the serpentine setup and run the serpentine belt. It took a few trips to the local auto parts place (which is only a few blocks from my house) to find the correct length. I also have it set up to where I can run my electric water pump drive for racing and use an even shorter 5 rib belt to drive the alternator. here's a pic but it's not to good of a shot but maybe you can get an idea from it. In this pic I have the electric pump drive hooked up.