WEIRD ignition problem...need some input here.

BlooDReigN · May 7, 2007

Alright, I've been starting to drive my car around lately to start breakin it in. Anyway, it's got this really annoying ignition problem. It starts up fine and runs GREAT for about 10-15 minutes. After that, the engine cuts out and won't start back up. I can't get the engine to start again for 1-1.5 hours until it cools down. Anyway, the engine is still getting fuel, but for some reason after this happens I get NO spark at all from the coil.
I tried replacing the TFI that came with my MSD pro billet distributor, as I have heard those often have problems, but the one I got has the exact same issue. I don't know what else it could be. It seems almost like it's temperature related, but none of the ignition parts get hot at all. I have an MSD pro billet distributor, coil and an MSD 6AL ignition box on this car. I'm not sure where to look next, and any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

HISSIN50 · May 7, 2007

I'd check codes and when it fails next time, see if you have injector pulsing. If not, and there's no spark, I'd think PIP.

Good luck.

BlooDReigN · May 7, 2007

What exactly does the PIP do and where is it located?

HISSIN50 · May 7, 2007

The PIP (Profile Ignition Pick-up, aka stator) is located inside the distributor. It relates crank position to the computer, so the puter can send spark and injector pulse at the correct time. Without a PIP, there'd be no spark or injector firing.

BlooDReigN · May 7, 2007

Hmmm...Maybe that's it. Any chance you could tell me how to change this thing? I'm not exactly sure what I'm lookin for in the distributor. I tried using a buddy's coil today, and that didn't help at all, so its either the MSD box itself or maybe this thing you are talking about.

HISSIN50 · May 8, 2007

I think some guys have provided some nice write-ups (better than what I spit out). Let's see if I recall much: You pull the dizzy, remove the vane cap (after pulling the cap and rotor). Then remove the roll pin and gear (a bearing splitter and puller are helpful. There is also a dedicated tool for this - it's about 50 bucks).
Then pull the guts of the dizzy out and replace parts.

Again, when the car craps out, if you have injector pulsing, the PIP is ok. This 10 second test could save you some work.

Personally, I'd bypass the box first (it's the first thing I'd bypass anytime there's an issue).

Random thoughts.
Good luck.

88mouse · May 8, 2007

it sounds like the PIP to me to.

jrichker · May 8, 2007

The PIP sensor sits in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. As the slots in the shutter wheel move past the PIP sensor, they uncover a magnet. The Hall effect sensor inside the PIP sensor sees the change in magnetic force and creates a pulse. This pulse is used to trigger the TFI when the SPOUT jumper is out. When the SPOUT jumper is in, the pulse is used by the computer to advance the timing and trigger the TFI. The PIP signal is also used by the computer to provide timing information for the fuel injectors.

A failing PIP will generate code 14. The failure symptoms often get worse as the PIP sensor heats up. Hard starting, misfire and poor performance are some of the problem symptoms.

You must press the distributor gear off the shaft to remove the distributor shaft and shutter wheel assembly. Once you have the distributor shaft/shutter wheel removed, there are two small screws that secure the PIP sensor in place. It works best to heat the distributor gear in an oven to 400 degrees or so to expand it so that it presses back on and lines up with the pin hole in the shaft.

Since pressing the gear off is a major pain, most guys just buy a remain distributor assembly.

Yellowpnoy · May 8, 2007

Thats funny man, i am having the EXACT same problem you are experiencing. I have mine at the mechanics. I have an MSD digital 6, MSD pro billet dist., TFI coil. I had some motor problems and ruined the first MSD Dist i had in there, and bought a new one to replace it. That is the ONLY thing that i changed on the ignition system, i replaced the TFI module with a replacement (not msd) and the car still did the same thing, and i did put the dielectric grease on there like the instructions said to do. The car is all newly rebuilt. Let me know what you find out, because i am interested in this also, as it has left me stranded 2 times. If its the dist. i am getting a reman. stock unit.

BlooDReigN · May 8, 2007

Well, I changed the PIP sensor today and the problem seems to have lessened a great deal. I drove the car for almost 100km today before it started giving me any issues. After that point, the car started sputter and my a/f (according to my wide band) was dipping REAL low when it was sputtering...around 8:1. It would do this while cruising or at WOT. After doing this for a while the engine would begin to stall, especially if it was revved past 2k.

I only put a used PIP sensor in the distributor. Is there any place that sells these things new?

HISSIN50 · May 8, 2007

A new PIP is all of 20 bucks. Napa sells them (for one). If a parts house gives you a funny look, ask for a stator instead. Half the battle is choosing the name that the parts house uses in it's puter.

Good luck.

BlooDReigN · May 9, 2007

I was just trying to drive the car again and the problem is terrible now. I can hardly start the car at all, and if it does start, its lucky if it runs for 20 seconds before it cuts out. I'll probly go pick a new one up tomorrow and see if it fixes the problem.

Yellowpnoy · May 9, 2007

Just to let you know, the mechanic installed a used stock distributor and the car stays running, it was the pip sensor in the distributor, this is nuts, mine was brand new, i ordered an accel billetech for it, hopefully this will be of better quality. Try i stock distributor in yours and see what happens.

Anthony

BlooDReigN · May 10, 2007

Well, I replaced that PIP sensor again today. The car pulls like a raped ape now...I love it

Mr Grim · May 15, 2007

Holy Cow! I have a billet MSD dizzy that is only 3 months old and I'm getting the pip failure code (14). What is wrong with MSD??? It looks like a quality piece.

Sure glad I found this thread! :SNSign:

WEIRD ignition problem...need some input here.

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