Well, it didn't sell

[10secgoal]

Man alot to reply to. You just don't need an intercooler. I am going to be getting rid of mine here real quick. I had planned on putting one in a kit. But you run into space problems up front. So I'm not going to put an intercoller in a kit, then just say, "you figure out how to fit your grill back on there." If I put in one that is too small, then you've defeated the purpose of the IC. Now you have a resriction on hte intake, and your inlet temps just went up trying to actually force air into the motor.
The whole split your block thing. This turbo kit, or any super charger, or even a nitrous kit will not cause your block to split. It's the HP levels that do it. So the point of my phrase was to say it will make enough to split your block. Not when you put this on, be careful, it could split your block.
Mike the balancer is close. But I have a HUGE sfi balancer. I had to even grind a little off of the bottom of my water pump to get it to fit. If it doesn't clear the balancer on a 289, you might have the wrong balancer. And I really know there is more demand for other cars. But how many times have you said to yourself," Man, I wish they made one of those for my car." This was something I wanted to do for us classic guys. If the cost of other upgrades makes them turn, that's ok too. You have to make upgrades anytime you make HP, not just putting on a turbo kit.
As far as the price xoxbxfx, That's the going rate for most mustang kits for mustangs w/o intercoolers. And they aren't made of stainless steel. And they have more room, and don't need an oil filter relocation kit. and they are fuel injected, so you don't need a carb hat. So with all that taken into consideration, it's a pretty damn good deal I think. As far as 2900 dollars, sorry, there is no way to go lower. I've got 2300 dollars into it as far as parts go. Then you look at all the hours it takes to make one. I'm making like minimum wage as it is.But's it fun, but it needs to be worth my time to some degree.
There are some compromises.R100RT's kit looks great. But the plugs look like a real pain.
there are so many benefits for a turbo charger. If you would rather have a SC, that's cool. But I can do 70 on the freeway and keep up now. And while cruising at 70, I can peel the tires if I want.It's either or. But you still need a bonnet, and all the same fuel upgrades as a turbo if you want a SC (unless you go roots.)I spent 50 bucks on my carb in mods, and the fuel curve is FLAT. Yes, you can build your own. but I'm not going to be the one to tell them. Then it's my fault when it blows up.
You can probably build around all the AC and junk. But the path that the exhuast will take, there will be compromise there too. Moving your ALT, changing your rad to a crossflow becasue the exhuast now runs thru the area where the stock hose used to be. I built the kit to fit the majority of cars. Most don't have any PS or AC. This is about as universal as they come short of a rear mount.

 

[mikemustang289]

I am interested as soon as I get the disposeable money and time. The only thing I am worried about though is whether or not that kit will be pump gas friendly in my application.

I know you said you ran it with 9.3:1 with and F cam. my comp is 9.1:1 but my custom cam has less duration on the intake. I'd have to compare the intake closing point on the F cam to mine but currently the spec sheet on mine says 41.6 degrees ATDC

Even at 5 psi, my DCR would be 10.86:1, I don't think I could manage pump gas with that and I really want to keep my car a street car.

 

[xoxbxfx]

Man alot to reply to. You just don't need an intercooler. I am going to be getting rid of mine here real quick. I had planned on putting one in a kit. But you run into space problems up front. So I'm not going to put an intercoller in a kit, then just say, "you figure out how to fit your grill back on there." If I put in one that is too small, then you've defeated the purpose of the IC. Now you have a resriction on hte intake, and your inlet temps just went up trying to actually force air into the motor.
The whole split your block thing. This turbo kit, or any super charger, or even a nitrous kit will not cause your block to split. It's the HP levels that do it. So the point of my phrase was to say it will make enough to split your block. Not when you put this on, be careful, it could split your block.
Mike the balancer is close. But I have a HUGE sfi balancer. I had to even grind a little off of the bottom of my water pump to get it to fit. If it doesn't clear the balancer on a 289, you might have the wrong balancer. And I really know there is more demand for other cars. But how many times have you said to yourself," Man, I wish they made one of those for my car." This was something I wanted to do for us classic guys. If the cost of other upgrades makes them turn, that's ok too. You have to make upgrades anytime you make HP, not just putting on a turbo kit.
As far as the price xoxbxfx, That's the going rate for most mustang kits for mustangs w/o intercoolers. And they aren't made of stainless steel. And they have more room, and don't need an oil filter relocation kit. and they are fuel injected, so you don't need a carb hat. So with all that taken into consideration, it's a pretty damn good deal I think. As far as 2900 dollars, sorry, there is no way to go lower. I've got 2300 dollars into it as far as parts go. Then you look at all the hours it takes to make one. I'm making like minimum wage as it is.But's it fun, but it needs to be worth my time to some degree.
There are some compromises.R100RT's kit looks great. But the plugs look like a real pain.
there are so many benefits for a turbo charger. If you would rather have a SC, that's cool. But I can do 70 on the freeway and keep up now. And while cruising at 70, I can peel the tires if I want.It's either or. But you still need a bonnet, and all the same fuel upgrades as a turbo if you want a SC (unless you go roots.)I spent 50 bucks on my carb in mods, and the fuel curve is FLAT. Yes, you can build your own. but I'm not going to be the one to tell them. Then it's my fault when it blows up.
You can probably build around all the AC and junk. But the path that the exhuast will take, there will be compromise there too. Moving your ALT, changing your rad to a crossflow becasue the exhuast now runs thru the area where the stock hose used to be. I built the kit to fit the majority of cars. Most don't have any PS or AC. This is about as universal as they come short of a rear mount.

Im just gonna say, lower your price. I understand you put in LOTS of hours building the kit but you gotta look at it this way. From a business standpoint, you dont sell your kit, you lose $2300 in parts. If you sell for less than what you wanted, atleast you make your money back + some. I feel that if you want to have an actual business in the turbo industry R&D is the hardest part. When you develop your kit though and have a market, mass producing is easy. Build your jigs to weld it all. Dont look at it as 1 kit, look at is as many. Sell your kit on ebay with a starting price of $2k... No one likes to see high prices in the beginning. Even if you sell it for $2400, you made something back. When you have a market and your jigs, fabbing up a kit isnt squat. You just cut your pipes, stick them in a jig...tack them and then fully weld it. You spend lots of time now, but a lot less later. Bill Gates spent 100's of hours developing microsoft, and all the new versions are built off his basic core.
Oh yeah...spend less money on your parts...cheaper substitutes are not always bad. People who want but dont know much are not going to want your kit cause it has a Tial BOV or somethin...they wont knwo a cheaper brand over another. I cant remember if you are using stainless or not...if so, ditch it. Its way to expensive for an entry level kit. Save that for the $10k turbo kit guys. Hell, the only stainless kits I see are people like Foose building custom cars.

 

[10secgoal]

Im just gonna say, lower your price. I understand you put in LOTS of hours building the kit but you gotta look at it this way. From a business standpoint, you dont sell your kit, you lose $2300 in parts. If you sell for less than what you wanted, atleast you make your money back + some. I feel that if you want to have an actual business in the turbo industry R&D is the hardest part. When you develop your kit though and have a market, mass producing is easy. Build your jigs to weld it all. Dont look at it as 1 kit, look at is as many. Sell your kit on ebay with a starting price of $2k... No one likes to see high prices in the beginning. Even if you sell it for $2400, you made something back. When you have a market and your jigs, fabbing up a kit isnt squat. You just cut your pipes, stick them in a jig...tack them and then fully weld it. You spend lots of time now, but a lot less later. Bill Gates spent 100's of hours developing microsoft, and all the new versions are built off his basic core.
Oh yeah...spend less money on your parts...cheaper substitutes are not always bad. People who want but dont know much are not going to want your kit cause it has a Tial BOV or somethin...they wont knwo a cheaper brand over another. I cant remember if you are using stainless or not...if so, ditch it. Its way to expensive for an entry level kit. Save that for the $10k turbo kit guys. Hell, the only stainless kits I see are people like Foose building custom cars.

My SS isn't inkenel, or 321 SS. At the going cost of mild steel, the SS peices only cost me 50 bucks more to make over mild steel. And with ALL the benefits, it's not worth cutting that corner.Im not looking at it as all the R&D time in this one kit. that was months. once I figured it out, it still took time to build. But you can't always just cut it to fit a jig either. that's when you have a kit that doesn't fit. The bends won't always be a perfect 90 degrees. I don't want to sell cheap parts just because someone doesn't know what a cheap part is either. MP turbo are on the cheap side, but good quality. I would love to put in a T-66 from turbonetics, but then the price of the turbo just doubled.And that's not for ball bearing option.
I don't mind selling the first few for 2500 bucks. But I don't want to come out of the hole low balling it, then nobody wants it because "I remember when they were only 2500"
So if someone wants it for 2500 send me a PM. I wanted to sell the first ones for that price locally so I could help. But if someone is competent enough to do it on their own, and tune it to get good numbers, then so be it.

 

[10secgoal]

I am interested as soon as I get the disposeable money and time. The only thing I am worried about though is whether or not that kit will be pump gas friendly in my application.

I know you said you ran it with 9.3:1 with and F cam. my comp is 9.1:1 but my custom cam has less duration on the intake. I'd have to compare the intake closing point on the F cam to mine but currently the spec sheet on mine says 41.6 degrees ATDC

Even at 5 psi, my DCR would be 10.86:1, I don't think I could manage pump gas with that and I really want to keep my car a street car.

I couldn't tell you for sure. But if I remember right, with the boost I'm running, the CR is up around 14 to 1 or more.

 

[iskwezm]

10secgoal

Dont lower your price. YOU made this kit off of your ideas and you should get paid for them.Why put in cheaper parts so people can replace them later????? I think your price ir right in the market for a "affordable" power adder. The ones complaining are the ones that cant afford it, so why cater to them????? I had to save for my blower, then i had to replace everything around it. If you had a kit for my car, i could unload my blower this week and get one. But, i wouldnt complain about the bonnet and whtever else, thats on me.

You do your thing and market it to the right people, not the guy with whitewalls and powersteering, we all know its a performance add on.

 

[10secgoal]

Evaluating 10 Second's kit from the point of view of a fairly ignorant buyer, it looks like, in addition to the $2900 for the blower, BOV, wastegate, exhaust, and cold side ductwork, I also will need a hat ($140-$200), a blow through carb $600?), an Aeromotive fuel pump ($200?), some exhaust tailpipe work ($200?), a return fuel line ($100?), a serious electric fan ($200?), and in most cases an upgraded radiator ($400). That's about another $2000.

So now we're at $4900 minimum.

Because boost is so good at overcoming intake deficiencies, I might not need a new intake or heads or a cam, but if I'm running a 289 or 302 with iron heads, or even with the typical 165 cc AFR's, and also with a dual plane intake and a mild NA spec cam, to optimize the combo I should probably dump another $2500 into upgrades here (minus $1000 for the value of the takeoffs).

So now the $2900 kit is a $6400 kit.

And unless I build a new shortblock, the eBay ad tells me it might split my block or melt my cast pistons! Add another $2000 for a suitably beefy shortblock. $8400.

Now that kind of money can buy you a really nice crate engine, including EFI and a Procharger or the like. Or if you're into drag racing only, you could go for a junkyard 460 ci 385 series and some FRPP/Kaase Cobra Jet heads and pop out 700 hp that way. And with either the blown Windsor or the big block you can run AC and PS. I don't know about the sway bar with the big block, but it's no problem with the Windsor.

Also, whenever you're stepping up to this level, you're going to need a 9" and a built C4 or C6. Or if you're in the stick shift realm, a 4-spd toploader will hang, but that 3-spd or T-5 has got to go. So there's another $3000-$4000.

$11,400-$12,400 for the maxed shortblock setup, $9,400-$10,400 for the OE cast crank and pistons.

Having said all that, it's still an attractive package. For $2000, 10 Seconds kit would fly off the shelves. At $2000, it's a "what the hell" deal. It's that extra $1000 that, the way I feel about it anyway, that lifts it to a higher level and has me wondering about the alternatives.

Compare all things as equals man. You did forget the new motor would need new headers. And not the 1.5 inch primary cheapies. And a new exhaust because at 700 hp, 2.5 pipe won't ideal at all. That motor is also going to need a bad fuel system as well. And a 351w will have a hard time fitting under a stock hood with a good air cleaner. And now if you go too big, now you also need new coil springs to hold the nose up. And all the same above mentioned upgrades are going to be need for the rest of the drivetrain as well.I wouldn't use expensive heads like Kasse heads. Kasse himself hasn't figured out how to get the rocker arm geometry right on those things yet. Point is anything can be picked apart until the idea costs 10k. I run stock forged pistons from a late model, stock block, stock crank. It'll take it, but how far you want to go is what's going to determine what it's going to cost. Not just the kit alone. If all you want is 400hp, buy good induction, and raise the CR. With a good tune, the block will go before the stock internals.

Stangonline, he cheated. He has an eleanor/shelby front end on there. He coulda fit my intercooler there with no problem.

 

[10secgoal]

Dont lower your price. YOU made this kit off of your ideas and you should get paid for them.Why put in cheaper parts so people can replace them later????? I think your price ir right in the market for a "affordable" power adder. The ones complaining are the ones that cant afford it, so why cater to them????? I had to save for my blower, then i had to replace everything around it. If you had a kit for my car, i could unload my blower this week and get one. But, i wouldnt complain about the bonnet and whtever else, thats on me.

You do your thing and market it to the right people, not the guy with whitewalls and powersteering, we all know its a performance add on.

I'm going tonight to look at a 65 fastback with a motor and no exhuast to see where what and how to fit a header. Choosing between the same chasis as I just did with a 351w,or a 65-66. I know I can sell these. Maybe not to everyone.So I'm not really worried about losing the money I have invested into it. If it doesn't sell, I can always just sell it to my buddy for cost. Then all I've lost is time. I just thought that someone would have seen this online and jumped at it. Oh well, in due time.

 

[65mistress]

I dont think anybody considers Hemmings as a source for high performance products

Isn't he a free lance writer? I guess it's a moot point though. I have to agree Iskw to a point. People who buy these kinds of power adders are more of the die hards, the only thing that I would suggest is to allow for a sway bar at least so that you can appeal to a wider group.

Have faith in your abilities, you'll sell one sooner or later.

 

[180 Out]

Compare all things as equals man.

I think I did. At least I was trying. What I posted in substance is that the guy with the AFR's and a generic forged-pistons 5.0 in his '67-'68 would be looking at about $4900 to install your kit. The guy (like me) starting with an OE C code 289 (with a bulls#!t dual plane and Ebok carb) should probably add new heads, intake, and a proper cam. This bumps me and guys like me up to $6400. At that price my options now include a pretty decent 351W crate engine, maybe even a 408, up and running.

I'm just saying, as you go further up the food chain you're carving off from the pool of buyers all the people who need to buy X, Y, and Z, and who have other options because they need so many upgrades.

You did forget the new motor would need new headers. And not the 1.5 inch primary cheapies. And a new exhaust because at 700 hp, 2.5 pipe won't ideal at all. That motor is also going to need a bad fuel system as well. And a 351w will have a hard time fitting under a stock hood with a good air cleaner. And now if you go too big, now you also need new coil springs to hold the nose up. And all the same above mentioned upgrades are going to be need for the rest of the drivetrain as well.

I wouldn't say I forgot all that stuff about the Windsor stroker option or the 385 big block option. I just didn't have the time to price all that stuff out. I would say, though, that taking the $8400 that I came up with as the price for a new forged-piston short block and all the extras, I could piece together a 5.0 crate -- including an all-forged shortblock -- with AFR heads, EFI, and a Procharger, up and running, or if I only wanted to drag race I could piece together a junk yard 460 with Cobra Jet heads, also up and running. Just pointing out the options, when you get up to that kind of money. Not crying about it, just writing about it.

I wouldn't use expensive heads like Kasse heads. Kasse himself hasn't figured out how to get the rocker arm geometry right on those things yet.

Are you talking about the Jegs/Kaase Windsor heads? I had not heard this about the 385 series Cobra Jet heads.

Point is anything can be picked apart until the idea costs 10k. I run stock forged pistons from a late model, stock block, stock crank. It'll take it, but how far you want to go is what's going to determine what it's going to cost. Not just the kit alone. If all you want is 400hp, buy good induction, and raise the CR. With a good tune, the block will go before the stock internals.

I said I asked my wife if I could buy your kit, didn't I?

Stangonline, he cheated. He has an eleanor/shelby front end on there. He coulda fit my intercooler there with no problem.

If you're talking about that twin turbo 427 '67 that Stangonline linked to, until I see an update that the owner's got it running, that's a vapor ware car. It's also an extreme build, and way beyond what we're talking about in this thread. So is R100RT's car, for that matter. Those kinds of builds are way beyond what 99.99% of the hobbyists are capable of doing, both from an engineering/fabrication and a financial perspective.

Anyway, I sure didn't mean to ding your enterprise. Again, I already said that I would give you $2900 for your kit today, if my wife would let me. Like I said, she thinks house payments and college tuition are more important. What I had in mind was just to run a tab on what it would cost for the bottom feeders like myself to step up to your product, to indicate part of the reason for why you got no bidders on eBay. Keep plugging away. It took Thomas Edison about a skadillion failures before he got an electric light bulb that people would buy.

 

[iskwezm]

I said I asked my wife if I could buy your kit, didn't I?

Again, I already said that I would give you $2900 for your kit today, if my wife would let me. Like I said, she thinks house payments and college tuition are more important.

I dont think anybody that has to ASK for money to put into a car should even bring that up much less be involved with cars. Its not a married mans hobby

 

[180 Out]

Its not a married mans hobby

You've been talking to my wife.

 

[10secgoal]

You've been talking to my wife.

Ain't that the truth.But the things is, you don't need all the stuff I have. you don't need heads. I have a dual plane intake.Stock cams work great. They have less overlap of the intake and exhaust. Most aftermarket cams aren't like that. The F-cam is a cheap off the shelf I got for 100 bucks.I thought about a stock cam real hard. But I miss the lope of my old cam. And I wanted to retain some kinda muscle car idle. Basically the difference is the level of boost. A stock 289 has the potential to make the same HP level I am making. But because of the heads I have, it takes less boost to move X amount of air. With small heads like a stock head, it takes more boost to move that same amount of air. I don't think you were dinging my kit. But I just wanted to make sure everyone understands if you want to make HP, you have to spend money to upgrade everything.I don't think it would cost another 2k over what you have to get it running. Really the only thing I can see you would need to buy over what you would need for a firebreathing 408 is, bonnet (200),oil filter relocation (I saw one in summit for like 42 bucks), return regulator (about 150) return line to the tank (do it cheap line I did with hard 1/2in line aluminum...75 bucks?) And a holley, but I wouldn't put an eddy on any real perfomance motor. If you want to be on the safe side, an AFR meter.

I can build it to fit a sway bar. But it would cost more in the long run. And make plugs a pain to change.The turbo has to be on the otherside, and then you have to move the battery to the trunk.More money.
The Kasse heads. My machinist has been trying to get it right. Jessel, Crane,nothing works. He called the company, and they can't get it right either. These heads are suppossed to go on a 1100hp big block.