I see your point @Gearbanger 101. It's a valid one. Too me all these scenarios are 50/50. You never know what's going to happen, whether they see your gun as dope for the next month or they try to rob you because they suspect you're unarmed. That's the reason we all carry. Is because of the unknowns (crazy people), whichever way you want to carry. I know I carry to protect the good people.
What Do You Carry And Why?
- Thread starter ColinMAC
- Start date
Better. Got shot with a 12 gauge in the "back" (end) during a dove shoot. It hurt, I got mad, and I turned to shoot back at the guy before being grabbed. It hurt, I bled, and the pellets penetrated A LITTLE into me. I was a KID and I was ready to shoot back. That being said, a .410 which is WAY less isn't that impressive. It's not about what I "think". Look at the tests, man. The .410 ISN'T that impressive per the tests. It FEELS like it would be amazing, but the data just isn't there.
One of THE most painful things I've ever felt was having an eyebrow plucked. I screamed bloody murder. That being said, I'd rather hurt REALLY BAD than have a 10mm slug punching a big hole through me. And with adrenaline running, "hurt" may not hurt.
Pain doesn't end a gunfight. Incapacitation does. A .410 shotshell out of a Judge, short of the face, probably ISN'T going to do that. And even in the face, eh it may NOT get anything vital. Probably will work, though.
I don't like "a good chance, maybe, as long as everything goes right". I like "this is ABSOLUTELY my best chance of survival . . . and my family will survive." I dunno, man. "Good chance" just isn't good enough for me.
And SCREW hitting the ground. I don't want him to have the capacities to SHOOT BACK IMMEDIATELY.
Promise? Willing to bet your LIFE that something that "hurts" will make someone stop attacking you?
You don't want to inflict pain. You want incapacitation. If you have to shoot someone, you are life threatening danger i.e. this person is VERY motivated to kill you. If I rushed someone with a gun, I'd be VERY motivated to kill them because they could kill me. I figure a bad guy thinks the same thing.
WHO SAID THAT???? I don't know who these people are who like to bet on statistics, probabilities, and "we thinks", but I hope they're not on MY side in a gunfight. I want the people who say "I picked the best bullet design in the biggest caliber I can safely handle, and I've put 5,000 rounds through this gun to get my technique down . . . screw probabilities." When it comes to MY safety, "bare minimums" are for the other guy to depend on. I want everything in my favor.
When I lived in Tennessee, we could openly carry. I didn't need to worry about being sneaky. I carried a Glock 20 easily within reach. I'm in Florida now, so I'm forced to carry concealed, but even then, I'm going with my "minimum" i.e. a Glock in .357 Sig or .40 SW. Still, though, I'm not betting on a "minimum" carry gun.
No offence, but my wife has 2 different daily carry 10 round .45's, and she's "little". Most likely you need a much better carry rig or a better gun selection. She's got a couple of good rigs that can make a big gun hide. I'll tell her to get on sometime.
EXACTLY!!! And that's why cops and security guards get robbed all the time because that gun is worth a lot of money, and it's EASY to rob a guy with a gun easy to grab on his hip. Happens all the time . . .
No. No it doesn't. I've carried for about 16 years, and even with my "high dollar" .38 Super race gun on, I never got any vibe that some tweeker was looking to rob me. Dude, muggers want an easy hit, and the LAST thing they want to deal with is a guy with a big, fancy, highly modified combat gun in a really nice looking FAST carry rig. It's sort of like going to an MMA match to pick a fight because, HEY, THOSE GUYS ARE ALREADY FIGHTING!! And most likely, they'll be too tired and confused to defend themselves if you jump into the octagon unannounced.
Think about how many armed robberies happen every day at gun shops . . . that's probably a good indicator.
While I like a lot of his stuff, just keep this in mind. In about 10 or so court cases, Ayoob has been proven wrong on his "expert testimony" by either physics, discovered video footage, or both. I'm not saying he's wrong all the time, or I don't agree with A LOT of what he says. I think the problem is that people considered him the one and only expert on gunfighting so long that his word has taken upon more weight than it might should have.
Bahhh . . . I agree. No one every gave me a second questionable look when I carried openly. Same goes for Lisa.
And when I agree with you, GB, it's something we probably both believe completely.
Can't say your logic is 100% sound either.
For starters, not many people are stupid enough to pick a fist fight with an armed person...I don't care how brave they are. That iron strapped to their thigh makes any potential fist fight an automatic loss in the mind of the potential aggressor who decides to bring fists to a gun fight and that's a deterrent as far as I'm concerned. Point in the open carry favour.
As far as potential robbers go. If they're determined to rob you, they're more than likely going to be at the ready, holding you up at weapon point right from the get go. Unless you're clairvoyant, they're going to get the drop on you whether you conceal, or not. No visible fire arm IMO is going to increase the chances of them trying something, since the odds are more in their favour, giving them a 50/50 chance of that their potential victim is armed. Seeing that open carry on the other hand tells them with 100% certainty that you're armed and they may just decide they'd be better off going for an easier mark....like oh...I don't know....perhaps the CC guy who doesn't appear armed? Besides...seeing a $500+ pistol on a persons side may make the score look more attractive, but I'm betting that the increased possibility of now taking $2.50 worth of slugs to the head and chest if things don't go their way curbs that impulsive behaviour dramatically.
Besides, once they've approached you with their weapon up and out already, it's going to be too late for you no matter where on your person you're carrying your gun....so I don't really see the advantage to concealment in the case of a determined robbery? Having it concealed just makes it that much harder and slower to get to. Whether he shoots you in the head right from the get go because he see's your openly carried weapon, or he shoots you in the head when you try to make a move for your concealed one....dead is dead and he still makes off with your belongings.
Someone bent on robbing you isn't going to just assume you aren't armed, just because they don't see a weapon....and unless they're absolutely stupid, aren't going to let their guard down because they don't see one either.
Why not open carry one and conceal another if you want to cover the basis? Then when you get a determined enough criminal who's now busy admiring the first weapon they took off of your person, you can pull the second one while he's got his eyes and hands full, to end their night?
@D Durden
Do you live in an underground house and drive an armored vehicle?
I don't think I need to explain why cops aren't usually robbed or about their holsters which most civilians don't have. And if you read my comment again you'll see that you took this completely out of context.
I obviously wasn't there when you got shot as a kid and instead of crying turned around to shoot back but it's clear that you're a natural born killer. Either your shooter was a littler further away than 7 yards or you were wearing a bullet proof vest. Or your skin is made of kevlar. Either way you're f*ing awesome and I want to be just like you.
A gun shot of any caliber THAT PIERCES THE SKIN and punctures vital organs (obviously what you're aiming at) will incapacitate an attacker. Yes, there are exceptions. Yes a huge bullet will do more damage. Yes I trust my 380 to my families life. Yes I would trust a judge with my families life. Yes, I trust all of my guns with my families life. And yes I shoot them often enough to trust them. Yes.
Cool. Your wife can shoot a big gun. My wife was in the Reserves so I've heard the story of her shooting a 50 cal more times than I care to. Can I carry and/or shoot big guns? Yes, my other CC gun is a Shield 40.
Let's get back to the point. My preference is to carry a pocket gun. I consider myself fit (somewhat) so I don't wear baggy clothes or coats when it's not that cold outside. It's easier and more comfortable for me to carry the P3AT. If my 40 is in my car and my 380 in my pocket, my 380 is a better gun to defend myself and my family if we we're attacked? Make sense? Of course not.
This gun has never misfired and it's surprisingly accurate. I don't go to the "hood" or live in a bad neighboorhood. I live in the country and I probably have less guns then most of my neighboors. It's not uncommon to hear people hunting and I can shoot my SKS in my back yard. Anyone dumb enough to break into my house will first need to get past my 2 indoor/outdoor boxers without waking anyone up. I keep my 40 over my head and my safe right next to my bed. Most likely it'd be a stupid teenager looking for something they could easily pawn.
.....so back to the whole point of this discussion....yes, I would protect my home with a judge. In fact, this discussion has made me want to buy one even more.
Do you live in an underground house and drive an armored vehicle?
I don't think I need to explain why cops aren't usually robbed or about their holsters which most civilians don't have. And if you read my comment again you'll see that you took this completely out of context.
I obviously wasn't there when you got shot as a kid and instead of crying turned around to shoot back but it's clear that you're a natural born killer. Either your shooter was a littler further away than 7 yards or you were wearing a bullet proof vest. Or your skin is made of kevlar. Either way you're f*ing awesome and I want to be just like you.
A gun shot of any caliber THAT PIERCES THE SKIN and punctures vital organs (obviously what you're aiming at) will incapacitate an attacker. Yes, there are exceptions. Yes a huge bullet will do more damage. Yes I trust my 380 to my families life. Yes I would trust a judge with my families life. Yes, I trust all of my guns with my families life. And yes I shoot them often enough to trust them. Yes.
Cool. Your wife can shoot a big gun. My wife was in the Reserves so I've heard the story of her shooting a 50 cal more times than I care to. Can I carry and/or shoot big guns? Yes, my other CC gun is a Shield 40.
Let's get back to the point. My preference is to carry a pocket gun. I consider myself fit (somewhat) so I don't wear baggy clothes or coats when it's not that cold outside. It's easier and more comfortable for me to carry the P3AT. If my 40 is in my car and my 380 in my pocket, my 380 is a better gun to defend myself and my family if we we're attacked? Make sense? Of course not.
This gun has never misfired and it's surprisingly accurate. I don't go to the "hood" or live in a bad neighboorhood. I live in the country and I probably have less guns then most of my neighboors. It's not uncommon to hear people hunting and I can shoot my SKS in my back yard. Anyone dumb enough to break into my house will first need to get past my 2 indoor/outdoor boxers without waking anyone up. I keep my 40 over my head and my safe right next to my bed. Most likely it'd be a stupid teenager looking for something they could easily pawn.
.....so back to the whole point of this discussion....yes, I would protect my home with a judge. In fact, this discussion has made me want to buy one even more.
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Lol, you missed the whole point.Can't say your logic is 100% sound either.
For starters, not many people are stupid enough to pick a fist fight with an armed person...I don't care how brave they are. That iron strapped to their thigh makes any potential fist fight an automatic loss in the mind of the potential aggressor who decides to bring fists to a gun fight and that's a deterrent as far as I'm concerned. Point in the open carry favour.
As far as potential robbers go. If they're determined to rob you, they're more than likely going to be at the ready, holding you up at weapon point right from the get go. Unless you're clairvoyant, they're going to get the drop on you whether you conceal, or not. No visible fire arm IMO is going to increase the chances of them trying something, since the odds are more in their favour, giving them a 50/50 chance of that their potential victim is armed. Seeing that open carry on the other hand tells them with 100% certainty that you're armed and they may just decide they'd be better off going for an easier mark....like oh...I don't know....perhaps the CC guy who doesn't appear armed? Besides...seeing a $500+ pistol on a persons side may make the score look more attractive, but I'm betting that the increased possibility of now taking $2.50 worth of slugs to the head and chest if things don't go their way curbs that impulsive behaviour dramatically.
Besides, once they've approached you with their weapon up and out already, it's going to be too late for you no matter where on your person you're carrying your gun....so I don't really see the advantage to concealment in the case of a determined robbery? Having it concealed just makes it that much harder and slower to get to. Whether he shoots you in the head right from the get go because he see's your openly carried weapon, or he shoots you in the head when you try to make a move for your concealed one....dead is dead and he still makes off with your belongings.
Someone bent on robbing you isn't going to just assume you aren't armed, just because they don't see a weapon....and unless they're absolutely stupid, aren't going to let their guard down because they don't see one either.
Why not open carry one and conceal another if you want to cover the basis? Then when you get a determined enough criminal who's now busy admiring the first weapon they took off of your person, you can pull the second one while he's got his eyes and hands full, to end their night?
Yes, if you're robbed at gun point there's a good chance you can shoot them. Like when you give them the money and they begin to focus on running away with it.
Yes, you're less likely to be robbed at gun point if you open carry. The possibility drops somewhere near 0%. Now the criminal has to decide, go somewhere away from you or shoot you in the back when you're not looking (kill you) and rob you. Chances are he'll choose option A. But if he chooses option B, you're dead. At least CC, you have option C, or D. I like having options.
I'm sure Dave appreciates the sarcasm, but have you ever let loose bird shot at close range. It's not really all that impressive. Yeah, it'll put a lot of little holes in you, but it won't blow you off your feet, or remove a limb like it does in the movies. Unless it was a dead centre shot, I have no trouble at all believe he walked away with little more than a flesh wound. I've put 3-4 rounds of 7-1/2 shot into cardboard targets at close range and had them hold up just peachy.
I think you're confusing stun, with incapacitate.
You drill someone in the chest with a .410 shot shell, 22LR....heck, even a 9mm with less than 100% accuracy, you're not likely to stop them. Hurt them...sure. Hurt them enough that they can't fight back...not likely. As the matter of fact, you may have just fuel'd their rage by giving them that added shot of adrenaline they needed to act against their better judgement.
I'm a firm believer in fire power over capacity. I'd rather have the option of putting something/someone down quickly with one or two well placed shots, than having to unload my magazine on it/them and hope it has the desired effect. IMO, you should first consider your proficiency with a weapon, before you get overly concerned with how many rounds you can potentially spray in one direction.
Don't get me wrong....capacity is nice and all, but probably not necessary for 99% of gun fights. Once the first couple of rounds start flying, everyone runs and ducks for cover. Nobody takes the time to scope your weapon over and examine it's calibre, or capacity so they can count your shots and jump on your when it runs dry. Anyone with half a brain is going to start retreating once they hear that first crack and hope that they're a better shot than the other guy.
It's like Mike Tyson said. "Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face".
I think it might be you that has missed the point? You think most criminals are going to just accept you handing over your wallet and watch and call it a day. Were I a criminal (hypothetically), I would make damn sure to fleece someone thoroughly before walking away with their possessions. That includes checking them for weapons. If that person is dumb enough to try something when I'm holding a loaded weapon to their person while executing my search....well hey, it's their funeral. Either way, I win.
Making a move for your weapon openly carried, concealed or otherwise when the deck is stacked against you should be a last resort, not a first one. Risking mine, or a loved ones life for a few bucks in my pocket and some jewellery isn't my idea of a smart move....and shouldn't be anyone else's either. Sometimes you just gotta put the macho bravado aside and use good old fashioned common sense.Why would you think he's more likely to kill you with open carry, than without. If he thinks you're a threat to him, he's going to act on it....plain and simple. That could mean disarming you, or it could mean outright killing you. More often than not, your attitude is going to be what dictates the outcome more so than what and where you carry your weapon.
There are always options....but having a CC doesn't necessarily protect from option B and open you up to a C and a D (whatever those are) just because you say they do? If they're going to shoot you, they're going to shoot you. If they're going to leave you alone, they're going to leave you alone. Only the open carry option give the criminal the ability to make a 100% informed decision as to which direction they will choose to take things. A concealed weapon only, still leaves things up to chance on both sides and it completely removes option A (your best possible outcome BTW) from the equation.
Unbiased test results of 410 home defense rounds from a 4.25" barrel. Keep in mind this is NOT a Judge (for the naysayers) but it is comparable to a 4" - 6.5". It's actually the first video I found. A few more minutes on YouTube would probably find a better video.
.410 Winchester PDX1 Gel and Meat Test:
View: http://youtu.be/NXHzFntUAp4
Again, my goal for a Judge would be home defense only, not CC. I would expect the encounter to take place within 7 yards (21 feet or less). My goal would be to incapacitate (or kill) the attacker and I'd follow the 410 round(s) with hollow point 45 or other self defense rounds. I feel like this would accomplish my goal.
Also Hornady makes a nice Defense round, which resides first in line in my safe if I need to reach for a long gun for home defense:
.410 Winchester PDX1 Gel and Meat Test:
View: http://youtu.be/NXHzFntUAp4
Again, my goal for a Judge would be home defense only, not CC. I would expect the encounter to take place within 7 yards (21 feet or less). My goal would be to incapacitate (or kill) the attacker and I'd follow the 410 round(s) with hollow point 45 or other self defense rounds. I feel like this would accomplish my goal.
Also Hornady makes a nice Defense round, which resides first in line in my safe if I need to reach for a long gun for home defense:
Turkey Sammich
I can't fap normal. I cracked a rib, then my ankle
- Jul 12, 2006
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Seems we have lots of gun fighters here lol.
People who get robbed outside of their homes make themselves soft targets. The same goes for security, hell, even military.
I continue to carry and use a 40 cal or 45 for home protection inside my home and outside. I don't keep unrealistic expectations that my first shot in the heat of the moment will be a kill shot. Why have a questionable weapon and round during that time? Last I checked I only have one life and the same for my family.
There's more reports of people especially criminals not going down after multiple shots because of the substances they're on.
I assume most people here will never have to pull a weapon on someone much less ever discharge a weapon in self defense. So, carry a .410, sling shot or .50cal. But if you ever are in that position and you can put down a threat because you choose the wrong caliber, expect me to LOL all over your thread.
People who get robbed outside of their homes make themselves soft targets. The same goes for security, hell, even military.
I continue to carry and use a 40 cal or 45 for home protection inside my home and outside. I don't keep unrealistic expectations that my first shot in the heat of the moment will be a kill shot. Why have a questionable weapon and round during that time? Last I checked I only have one life and the same for my family.
There's more reports of people especially criminals not going down after multiple shots because of the substances they're on.
I assume most people here will never have to pull a weapon on someone much less ever discharge a weapon in self defense. So, carry a .410, sling shot or .50cal. But if you ever are in that position and you can put down a threat because you choose the wrong caliber, expect me to LOL all over your thread.
Actually, when I lived in tornado alley in Tennessee, yup, had a reinforced fully furnished basement. And my Mustang has a REALLY nice roll cage and restraints.
You really don't understand much about real world ballistics, do you?
Small birdshot doesn't have tons of penetration. Look at some of the tests people do. It's not that it doesn't "hurt". It does. It's not that it doesn't penetrate AT ALL. It does. But light birdshot is not going to blow off body parts and puncture deep tissue. If it DID, there would be no point in carrying slugs or heavier loads.
Look at tests man. They're all over. That stuff DOESN'T penetrate.
AGREED! I think the point is that the .410 loads in the Judge doesn't have the power to penetrate reliably to GET to the organs. And if it did, the pellets are generally too small to incapacitate.
So, EVEN THOUGH all the normal test data in the world shows the Judge with .410 shells don't meet MINIMUM FBI performance data to be considered, you still trust it?
Fair enough. Don't know what to tell you.
I read this three or four times. Did I miss a point, or was there just not one?
Cool! Good for you and your family. It's good, at least, that you now KNOW the lack of performance of the .410 Judge and can make an informed decision.
Box O Truth tested that ammo, too:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-53-the-taurus-judge-revisited/
It was bare minimum penetration . . . when it penetrated. It's serviceable, but it's not exactly impressive. I looked over the net at other independent tests, and they ranged from "meh" to "minimum acceptable" on penetration. It rips things up and makes a mess . . . sort of . . . but, eh, do this. Look at some QUALITY 9mm tests, especially some of the new SXT bullets.
It's not that the Judge "won't" kill or isn't effective at all. It's more that it's just not what people THINK it is. It's not a 12 gauge in a pistol, and it's not going to just destroy people with one shot. NO handgun is really going to do that.
I'm sorry you don't like the test data or the facts, but they just kind of are what they are. If the Judge was really magical or something like so many people think, I'd own one. I'm not set on any one caliber, maker, or loading . . . in the least.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-53-the-taurus-judge-revisited/
It was bare minimum penetration . . . when it penetrated. It's serviceable, but it's not exactly impressive. I looked over the net at other independent tests, and they ranged from "meh" to "minimum acceptable" on penetration. It rips things up and makes a mess . . . sort of . . . but, eh, do this. Look at some QUALITY 9mm tests, especially some of the new SXT bullets.
It's not that the Judge "won't" kill or isn't effective at all. It's more that it's just not what people THINK it is. It's not a 12 gauge in a pistol, and it's not going to just destroy people with one shot. NO handgun is really going to do that.
I'm sorry you don't like the test data or the facts, but they just kind of are what they are. If the Judge was really magical or something like so many people think, I'd own one. I'm not set on any one caliber, maker, or loading . . . in the least.
A 410 will not stop a bear. Especially with bird shot. I don't ever expect I'll be held up by a bear.
This is not an accurate test of the Judge I would purchase. He first had his expectations let down by a shortened Judge and then used the shortest Judge made and repeatedly stated that he'd get better results from a longer one, like the 4 or 6.5" model. Or other spin offs of the 410 revolver which most seem to be in the 4" barrel range. Instead of using ballistic gel for these "minimum requirements" he used water jugs and calculated the penetration. Any number of variables could have skewed his results (distance from jug to jug, angle the jugs were place since the bullet will be losing speed as it passed from one to the next, does his 2 to 1 water ratio account for the various levels of plastic and air that the bullets must pass through, etc).
This review made a really good statement. You're responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun. With a minimum barrel length of 4" for better velocity and tighter patterns, and Hornady ammo which is tested in real ballistic gel to exceed your 12" performance standards from 7 yards away (or other ammo with 3 slugs and no BB's), a Judge or another 410 revolver is a great choice for home defense.
View: http://youtu.be/OtdYVk4ugHc
You continue to respond as if the only load a Judge can carry is a bird shot. Let's see some proven results with defense rounds and ACCURATE tests (not a home made water jug scale) where it fails this FBI minimum requirement??
Actually, the water jug tests correlate really well. So do the drywall board tests. It's why people still rely on them. Water, for what it's worth, is a pretty uniform material. More than likely it's a lot more uniform that ballistic gel. Comically, the human body isn't that homogeneous at all.
Something I want you to consider is this. What you're saying is that a Judge with a 4-6 inch barrel with expensive specialty loads MAY be as good as a fairly conventional "normal" handgun. Maybe . . . as long as everything goes right, there's not much cover, and you don't have to penetrate too much.
Look at what you have to do to the .410 load to get it to a reasonable level of self-defense confidence. You have to make it more and more like a . . . fairly conventional handgun round. First you crank up the velocity, you reduce the number of projectiles, and basically try and mimic normal handgun performance. Basically, you try and get as close to a handgun loading as you can. It's expensive, and the rounds are relatively unproven. I'm not saying they WON'T work. I'm saying I've got way more data on things that DO work, and I'm not willing to risk my life or the lives of my family on "hey, tests look almost as good as the stuff that we know works, and we think this will work."
You say it's a "great" choice for home defense. I disagree. It's a decent choice if it's all you have next to a .22 or some other small handgun. In comparison to a garden variety .38 / .357 revolver, it offers no performance advantage, it's terribly expensive to practice with, it's big, and it's heavy. Compared to a modern 9mm or .40, eh, it's pretty lacking. Compared to a modern .45, 10mm, or 38 Super, it's not even in the same ballpark.
Quality wise and all, the Judge is just fine. I like the maker, and I carry their products. The Judge is more of a sentimental favorite or idealistic choice. It sounds great, but in practice it's just "not bad". I would never consider it a first choice and not even close to a "best choice". The performance just isn't there overall. It requires too much special effort to make it work like "normal" choices work naturally.
Something I want you to consider is this. What you're saying is that a Judge with a 4-6 inch barrel with expensive specialty loads MAY be as good as a fairly conventional "normal" handgun. Maybe . . . as long as everything goes right, there's not much cover, and you don't have to penetrate too much.
Look at what you have to do to the .410 load to get it to a reasonable level of self-defense confidence. You have to make it more and more like a . . . fairly conventional handgun round. First you crank up the velocity, you reduce the number of projectiles, and basically try and mimic normal handgun performance. Basically, you try and get as close to a handgun loading as you can. It's expensive, and the rounds are relatively unproven. I'm not saying they WON'T work. I'm saying I've got way more data on things that DO work, and I'm not willing to risk my life or the lives of my family on "hey, tests look almost as good as the stuff that we know works, and we think this will work."
You say it's a "great" choice for home defense. I disagree. It's a decent choice if it's all you have next to a .22 or some other small handgun. In comparison to a garden variety .38 / .357 revolver, it offers no performance advantage, it's terribly expensive to practice with, it's big, and it's heavy. Compared to a modern 9mm or .40, eh, it's pretty lacking. Compared to a modern .45, 10mm, or 38 Super, it's not even in the same ballpark.
Quality wise and all, the Judge is just fine. I like the maker, and I carry their products. The Judge is more of a sentimental favorite or idealistic choice. It sounds great, but in practice it's just "not bad". I would never consider it a first choice and not even close to a "best choice". The performance just isn't there overall. It requires too much special effort to make it work like "normal" choices work naturally.
Visa debit...cause you never know when you'll run across a really bitchin' pair of shoes.
Seriously, this:
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jlangholzj
Mustang Master
Which in this case would be a very good argument against you from "self defense" to "homicide". You've neutralized the threat and if you've got time to go back to grab a 45 or any other weapon for that matter you're showing a level of malice that goes beyond that of "self defense".
To go along with the quote as well, Have you ever participated in a timed 3-gun shoot? Trying to switch weapons when under pressure and adrenaline is flowing is no easy task. Hell I'd be surprised if I could change a magazine out when "under the gun" persay.
In addition to that there should be no reason to "follow up" with anything. This goes without saying no matter the situation: home defense, medicine, sports, relationships, you name it. I switched to bow-hunting over rifle not only because its more challenging but because every deer I've ever shot with a rifle (30-06, .300 win mag, 7mm, .50 muzzle...you name it) has run at a minimum of 50 yards even when double-lunged. The furthest I've had a bow-deer run is...well...two steps. I'm not going to have the doctor give me an antibiotic just so he can "follow up" with getting that appendix out later. I'm not going to replace all the rod bearings just so I can "follow up" with getting that crankshaft turned the second time. I'm not going to tell durden he's got a pretty mouth just to "follow up" with lisa later.
(cause lets be honest here lisa is the better catch of the two).My point being you do something with a purpose. If a pocket gun is that purpose (which is great!) then I'd much rather trust my 380 auto over some 00 shot in a .410. F=ma. No matter what shot size you use it's going to be lighter and less directed than a bore-weapon. I'm not going to take a chance with where that shot can go, I want to KNOW.
In lieu of this thread I guess I'll contribute. Please ignore the awesome love-handles I'm rocking.
View attachment 111910
M&P Shield, .40 with the extended magazine. Fits in the Crossbreed supertuck quite nicely and this is a setup I can wear very comfortably in all conditions.
This is also typically the style of target that I shoot at:
The plates I use are typically smaller than the "average" center of mass that you would see. It's a simple audible feedback on whether I hit the target or not. Of course I'm concerned with accuracy but in the end, if i shoot a 3" group vs a 5" group at 7-10 yards it's a dead bad-guy.
Also one thing I've been practicing lately, While I'm making supper I'll take the mag out, empty the chamber, TRIPLE CHECK that there's nothing in the gun and practice my draw/squeeze at a wall while I'm waiting for food to cook. Great way to practice the draw and fire mechanism so you don't fumble around when the time comes.
