What Do You Carry And Why?

[Lisa GT]

Interestingly enough, when I took my carry permit class in TN, the instructor had us draw from a holster to qualify. Thankfully, in our house with 6 live alarms, there's not much chance of an intruder getting the drop on us. As Durden has personally seen, I will establish a cover position and wait for you to walk into my line of fire. (Good thing you heard me rack that slide, huh honey?) Lesson learned, always one in the pipe now.

 

[joshw0000]

Interestingly enough, when I took my carry permit class in TN, the instructor had us draw from a holster to qualify. Thankfully, in our house with 6 live alarms, there's not much chance of an intruder getting the drop on us. As Durden has personally seen, I will establish a cover position and wait for you to walk into my line of fire. (Good thing you heard me rack that slide, huh honey?) Lesson learned, always one in the pipe now.

Brave instructor (not because of you, for liability reasons). Our instructor wouldn't let us draw from the holster. He did offer a more advanced class that you could draw in.

I feed my alarm(s) Kibbles and Bits. They have free reign of our house and yard and sleep in the back room where our doggy door is. Anyone brave enough to crawl through would be face to face with an 80 lb boxer. They're on an invisible fence so it would appear to anyone scoping the house out that they can get you off of our property...and they could if they wanted to. I've had to walk them back through on several occassions (usually when the collar batteries get low).

 

[Lisa GT]

That was the only handgun class I had ever taken that required a holster. He did want the guns on 'safe' and fingers outside the trigger guards when drawing. Also they had 6 shooters on the range at a time and 6 instructors, so there was a 'babysitter' for each shooter. I have to say, some of what I've seen in handgun classes scares me. Some people are really careless when they are handling a firearm.

My intruder alarms like Taste of the Wild. They have the run of the house. We don't have a doggy door, but it's something I might consider doing. We have 4 Pit Bulls, an American Bulldog and one tiny jerk (Rat Terrier/Boston Terrier mix).

 

[D Durden]

Josh, your logic is sound i.e. for a rushed first shot, having a "spread" gives you an advantage. If it worked out like people imagine, honestly, I'd probably carry the same rounds. The problem is that they really don't do what people think they do.

1. The "spread" really isn't that much compared to what people think. The weapon still has to be aimed because the spread is pretty small, and effectiveness relies on getting the most projectile into the target as possible. Basically, if the "spread" is the reason you hit the target i.e. 50% of the projectiles miss but some of them clip the side of the target due to the spread, odds are you've done minimal damage short of a head shot. What I feel the "spread" theory does is takes the emphasis off target acquisition and, instead, on speed and reliance on an unreliable round.
2. Multiple projectiles vs. single projectile would have tons of advantages if not for, well, physics. A common misconception is that if you fire three rounds of 100 grains each, they EACH have the same energy as a single 300 grain projectile. It's not the case. They share that power. It's not multiplied. Many people think that if they shoot a .410 with three projectiles that it's somehow just like shooting a .45 LC three times because the rounds are similar diameters. If you look at the mass of the projectiles, they're really pretty small.

I agree with your scenario . . . sort of. If someone has intent to kill you enough to risk a gun fight, yeah, a "warning" shot is probably not going to to much other than to assure your own demise, and the best action is to dispatch them as quickly and effectively as possible. I'd be willing to wager, though, that the scenario is rather rare for daily life.

The scenario you mention about someone having an armful of electronics IS a good one to discuss, though. I sort of agree with your presumption that if a guy has an armful of electronics, and you fire a "warning" shot at them, no, they're probably not going to stand there, draw a weapon, and initiate a gun fight. That's good. What's questionable is that you fired a lethal weapon at a person who was not actively threatening you. There was no need of a warning shot because per the scenario the guy has an armful of your stuff. He's no physical threat per se, and MORALLY you have no grounds to even fire the warning shot (my opinion). LEGALLY, depending upon the state, he could be fair game for shooting. In Tennessee we had implied intention based laws i.e. if someone breaks into your house, you can imply legally that they intend to do you harm and reasonable force is justified. Legally you may be fine, but morally, eh, to me you're on shaky ground even firing the weapon. That being said, my wife would have already unloaded a magazine into him. For her, there's more risk than me. I can't argue.

As for being "skinny" and shooting a heavier loading, there are some REALLY spiffy 9mm loadings out there that anyone can handle. I'm looking to buy a 9mm, now, for a few reasons but one of them is that the new bullet designs make it worth carrying. A lot of "handling" is mental i.e. perceived recoil. I changed the way I "perceived" shooting, and it's helped me out a lot. I DON'T like heavy recoil, so I have to really prep myself to shoot full power loads. Once I figured out how to prep myself, though, it really helped. Work on quicker target acquisition and follow up shot, and you'll start to perceive less recoil. That helped me (and my kid) out a great deal.

 

[D Durden]

AND FOR THE RECORD, yeah I heard the slide . . . on MY gun . . . as I was coming into MY house. Technically, I cannot sneak into MY house. It's like stealing your own car or something. It can appear to be the case, but it's impossible to actually do.

 

[joshw0000]

Durden, I do agree with most of your logic. Every situation is different and for my house, when I exit the master bedroom, I've got a long hall leading to the front of the house. It would be MY aim to keep any invader away from the back of the house where my 2 small kids sleep. So I could easily (and with a clean conchise) argue that I feared for my families life. And my state law is that I can legally use deadly force if I feel that my familiy's life is in danger. Personally, I'd like to have the first shot stop the intruder and have the option to continue with deadly force at my discretion. I understand that not all 3 projectiles would impact the same as a single would. I do believe they would all (or at least 2) be deep enough to inflict life threatening injuries. And again, I'm less than a second away from a 2nd, 3rd, etc 45 round. I believe the intruder would be stunned enough by the first round that I would have time to think about the 2nd or 3rd. Obviously, if I felt that he had a gun, the decision would he made much quicker.

I'm not exactly skinny. I'm a little over 200 but I do have skinny hips. Handling a large caliber gun isn't an issue, it's concealing it comfortably and getting the holster on quickly. It takes me a little time to find the comfort zone that I feel isn't bulging.

 

[joshw0000]

That was the only handgun class I had ever taken that required a holster. He did want the guns on 'safe' and fingers outside the trigger guards when drawing. Also they had 6 shooters on the range at a time and 6 instructors, so there was a 'babysitter' for each shooter. I have to say, some of what I've seen in handgun classes scares me. Some people are really careless when they are handling a firearm.

My intruder alarms like Taste of the Wild. They have the run of the house. We don't have a doggy door, but it's something I might consider doing. We have 4 Pit Bulls, an American Bulldog and one tiny jerk (Rat Terrier/Boston Terrier mix).

You win. Those Pits don't set off your alarm?

 

[D Durden]

You win. Those Pits don't set off your alarm?

Actually, they ARE the alarm. LOL! The little dog and the American Bulldog, anyway. ONE of our pits will bark, the rest will either run or await treats from said intruder. LOL!

The .410 rounds MIGHT get in deep enough, but they're on the ragged edge. One issue with them that REALLY gets missed is that they don't hit "point of aim". What I mean is that, odds are, none of the projectiles are going to hit EXACTLY where you aim. If you get a "spread", it means that the projectiles stray off course enough to make a spread. Odds are you'll hit AROUND where you aimed, but you won't actually HIT where you aim. Does it matter tactically? There's some debate, but to me, eh, I want to at least have the POTENTIAL of hitting what I'm aiming at. LOL!

 

[joshw0000]

Ah, I see what you did there.

 

[D Durden]

?

 

[joshw0000]

?

Thankfully, in our house with 6 live alarms, there's not much chance of an intruder getting the drop on us.

 

[D Durden]

Gotcha

 

[Darkwriter77]

Been carrying concealed for about 6 years now, on-the-job off and on about 5 years total now. Been "playing" with firearms off and on for decades before that, since I was a wee one. Sorta shifted into firearms as a hobby as my interest in cars waned for awhile, and as a result of things I've experienced and things I've seen going on locally and nationally. Used to be that I freakin' HATED Glocks, largely due to their obnoxious fanboy crowd and because they feel weird in-hand; after getting a smoking deal on a G30 from a co-worker and giving it a fair shake, dang it, I found out that I actually shoot them more accurately than the M&P's and Rugers that I had preferred up until then. So, by and large, most of my carry pieces are Glocks. *hangs head in shame* I'm just another lousy Glock guy now. Dammit. Although I do still carry the occasional Ruger or S&W revolver now and then ... just because.

Main carry pieces are, in order of largest to smallest:

1. Glock 21 (usually open-carried to/from work, haven't quite convinced myself to swap in the 10mm conversion barrel for carry yet);
2. Glock 19;
3. Springfield XDS45 4.0";
4. Glock 26;
5. Kel-Tec P11;
6. Glock 43;
7. S&W 686+ 2.5"
8. Ruger SP101 2.25";
9. Kel-Tec P32 Gen1 (hard chrome finish, for summer);
10. Kel-Tec P32 Gen2 (blued finish, for winter).

I switch around my carry pieces from day to day, based upon what I'm wearing, where I'm going, and ... well, just whatever I fancy that particular day. Aside from the two wheelguns, they all have exactly the same manual of arms - no manual safeties, no DA/SA triggers. Some folks will harp on the fact that the revolvers aren't EXACTLY the same setup, but my default response to encountering a malfunction or running my primary gun dry is to draw my secondary, which is whichever of the two P32's I'm carrying that season in my back pocket. If I'm in a situation where I need to empty my primary AND my secondary, I'm already in a world of hurt, but I should at least be in a position by then where I have found cover and can reload without having to need Jerry Miculek-like speed to be effective about it.

As an aside with regard to the .410 rounds, if you're using ammo that's actually designed specifically for .410 handguns, the performance is MUCH better. For my S&W Governor, which pretty much only sees bedside duty, I prefer either Federal Handgun 000 buckshot or Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion loads (which are .45 Long Colt loads oversized in length specifically for Judge/Governor/Bond Arms applications). The Federal Handgun 000 buckshot loads make fist-sized patterns at 10 yards in everything I've shot them through (full-size Judge, Public Defender, and Governor), and ballistic gel tests show them consistently coming in right at or just over the required 12" penetration depth. A third choice would be the Hornady Triple Defense load and, if none of the above are available at all, lastly I would opt for the Winchester PDX-1 .410 load (those BB's are worthless and spread too far too quickly, but the discs do okay). Using old-school .410 loads designed for full-length shotguns instead of modern handgun-specific loads usually yields the crappy results for which the .410 handguns have long been known. Use the right ammo for the given task.

 

[D Durden]

I guess I always have to ask that with the option of carrying a .45 LC or a highly modified .410 round, for self-defense against humans, why not carry the .45 LC?

 

[Darkwriter77]

I guess I always have to ask that with the option of carrying a .45 LC or a highly modified .410 round, for self-defense against humans, why not carry the .45 LC?

Four 0.35" diameter wound channels going about 12" > a single 0.45" - 0.75" diameter wound channel going the same depth. More holes = more blood loss = faster incapacitation. Those times that I did carry a .410 revolver, the 000 buckshot loads were my primary, and .45 LC on speed strips were my reloads, because trying to poke .410 shells in there in a hurry is a royal PITA, whereas a pointy- or round-nosed .45 LC goes into that cylinder a lot more easily. I have the same setup still with the Governor, which again is simply my nightstand gun, although instead I have .45 ACP on moon clips on the nightstand as my quick reloads. (Moon clips beat the heck out of speed loaders/strips.)

 

[7991LXnSHO]

So what's the point of so many carry items? I'd never tease someone so well armed about trying to match his shoes and purse. But I bet they do not get the finishes worn very quickly in rotation.
I do seriously wonder how much time you spend at the range to keep accurate with all of them and how much time you spend practicing loading, reloading, un jamming, unholstering (quick drawing?) and cleaning to be ready with all these.

For example, when I was teaching, I could play a different horn each day or class with beginners and younger bands and be dangerous on them all. Now I am no longer in the classroom with a horn in my hands all day, I pretty much have to limit to one or two axes.
I figure I would be best off to do the same with a concealed carry and favorite rifle. Does that make sense?

 

[Darkwriter77]

Again, the manual of arms is the same with all of them, aside from the revolvers (which very rarely get carried, to be honest), because they're predominantly all of the same make (Glock). If they were all vastly different - such as some having SA triggers, some DA/SA, some DAO, some with manual safeties and some without, etc. - then yeah, I can see a potential issue there with muscle memory and such. But otherwise, they're all the same gig. Even my issued duty pistol (M&P .40 S&W ... s'okay, not bad but not my favorite) has the same manual of arms and a similar trigger reset. There are differences between each of my carry pistols due to size and caliber, but they're fairly subtle differences in terms of performance - my target groupings all look about the same. (I just wish I could make groupings as tight with my carry guns as I can with my hot-rodded "range toy" pistols. ) Other than that ... all pretty much the same. Heck, they're ALL wearing rubberized Talon Grips, and most are even loaded with the same brand/type of ammo (Federal HST).

Having one gun and one rifle isn't a bad idea in a way, but it does limit your options. One or two guns do not fit all situations or needs/wants. I used to be on a quest to find the "perfect" defensive gun. Surprise, there is none, or at least no firearm that can fulfill all roles equally well nor can it ever do as well as or be as appropriate as a more specialized firearm for specific roles. I mean, sure, you can use a shotgun as a "rifle" by putting slugs in it, but it'll never outperform an actual rifle; likewise, you could limit yourself to a single carry gun, but it's not always going to be practical to conceal AND be the easiest to shoot accurately and comfortably AND reliable AND affordable AND have the best capacity of a capable caliber AND ... well, you get the idea. A jack-of-all-trades gun is a master of none. Thus ... multiple guns. And besides ... I like variety. (Some days brunettes, some days Asians, some days 3D animated chicks, etc. )

The amount of actual range time I get these days is honestly FAR less than what I would like. Haven't been for a couple of months because things have been hectic at work AND busy outside of work. But aside from live-fire, I do often practice (weekly, at the least) draws and reloads, with the aid of a shot timer app on my phone, and sometimes with an airsoft version of the same make/model as my duty pistol. And then there's the fun pellet-gun plinkin' I do indoors across the home, FWIW - hey, trigger time is trigger time (and I'm enjoying having free reign of the house before my gal moves in and probably puts a stop to that. ).

And yes, I do sometimes coordinate what I carry with what I'm wearing. (Mostly for practical reasons, though. Mostly...)

 

[Gearbanger 101]

 

[Darkwriter77]

The new to/from work carry setup: Glock 40 MOS (10mm) with Safariland 578 GLS paddle (Long-Fit), Fobus dual-mag paddle, and Winchester Silvertips (for now) in the mags and chamber. Goes on before I head out the door, goes in the trunk and locker when I get there, goes back on before I drive home. Aside from to/from/at work, I don't ever open-carry. Not that I have anything against open carry, I just prefer concealed for a lot of reasons. The stuff I carry off-the-clock the rest of the time is ... well ... "various."

 

[Adieu]

S&W 22a for fun at the range and varmint duty on my rural property. Ruger SR9c for defending my place in town.