What do you guys think about this crack in my A4 block

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

So I bought a used Ford Motorsport A4 block (from a guy of Corral.net), I paid the guy to have it checked out, magnafluxed etc, before I bought. I have paperwork from the machine shop (Reid's Automotive, Whitman MA) and called and talked to the owner at the machine shop and they said it checked out perfect.

So I get the block and take it to get powder coated and my powder coater calls me this morning and says he found a crack. I'm like WTF, my powder coater finds a crack but the machine shop doesn't???

Then I pick up the block and take it to my machine shop (Borowski Race Enterprises, Joliet IL) and they don't think there is anything they can do with it. They said I could try to use it the way it is, but chances are the whole piece will crack off there. He said if they take the piece off and build the area back up with weld and machine it, there is no way they'll be able to drill and re-tap it cause when they weld it draws all the nickel to that area and is too hard to tap.

I could have sworn I've seen things like this repaired before though. I dunno, just looking for some input as to whether I should try to get my money back on the block and get a brand new one, or try to have someone fix it.

Daggar · Apr 2, 2007

Take it to a machine shop and have it welded and cleaned by a professional machinist. The block definitely looks savable. Don't skimp though... if it costs $300 to get it fixed correctly then spend the 300.

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

My machine shop, the one I took it to is a very good machine shp, one of the best in the Chicago area, and they said if they take the piece off and build the area back up with weld and machine it, there is no way they'll be able to drill and re-tap it cause when they weld it draws all the nickel to that area and is too hard to tap.

I am pretty sure I have seen stuff like this repaird by rewelding it. My shop is pretty picky about some stuff though. I think sometimes they are scared to repair things just because they are afraid of it breaking again and getting blamed. They do deal mostly with serious racing engines though, and something like that on a 1000+hp motor is definate no-go.

onequicklx · Apr 2, 2007

You're just having really bad luck with this stuff aren't you?

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

onequicklx said:
You're just having really bad luck with this stuff aren't you?

Yeah, I'll never buy a used block again.

SRT · Apr 2, 2007

Correct me if I'm wrong but the A4 block is cast iron, i have had cast iron welded together before with no problem, and that was broken apart not just a crack. plus the bolt should not have too much pressure on it since it is for the water pump. good luck

check this link out http://www.muggyweld.com/castiron.html

BlownFiveLiter · Apr 2, 2007

Tell the machininst to pull out the tampon and cut some threads into it after they weld it up. I don't see any reason they'd have no problem cutting new threads into it, they are a machine shop, right?

Foxfan88 · Apr 2, 2007

they should have no problem welding that, its perfectly clean. and it wont be hard to tap. doesnt matter what happens a tap which is made of tool steel, has alot of carbon and is heat treated and will be MUCH harder than the block and will cut it just fine.

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

StangGT1995 said:
Tell the machininst to pull out the tampon and cut some threads into it after they weld it up. I don't see any reason they'd have no problem cutting new threads into it, they are a machine shop, right?

Hey StangGT1995, do you know of any other good machine shop around here? I live just next door to you in Frankfort.

Woodrow · Apr 2, 2007

Get on the NMRA forums and ask someone on there of a good machine shop.

BlownFiveLiter · Apr 2, 2007

I don't know if they're any good, but there's a machine shop right in Mokena, somewhere on Wolf Rd. If you want, I could look up the phone number, since I don't have it right in front of me. I was going to use them to pull a broken intake bolt out of some GT40P's I was selling last year, but I was able to get it myself. You could give Winner's Circle a shout and see if they could handle it. I think their machine shop is at one of their other stores, but you could probably drop it off at the Joliet store and let them deal with getting it there and back if that's the case.

BLOWN 5.0 FOX · Apr 2, 2007

may I ask how much you got it for????

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

BLOWN 5.0 FOX said:
may I ask how much you got it for????

I got it for $1680 shipped with ARP Main studs and a Canton 7qt pan, so you factor out shipping, studs, and pan it was about $1200. It's o-ringed, bored .030 over, notched for a stroker and supposed to just need a hone.

mustangjoe87 · Apr 2, 2007

Tell them to suck it up and buy a better tap, there is no way that they can re tap after welding they prolly just dont want to.

retro50 · Apr 2, 2007

Obviously you guys have never had the pleasure of drilling & tapping welded up cast Iron. Do a search on what is involved with this procedure before giving out advice.

caseywan:

Do a search on welding cast iron engine blocks. and think about this process long and hard before having it fixed. It has to be done right. Listen to your machine shop. They know what is going on. That is alot of money for a used block to have some hack welder out in the sticks weld up because he was cheap. I've seen people mig weld steel to cast iron and think they did a good job. That is untill you hit the piece of steel with a hammer and it falls right off. That crack is fixable. You just need the right guy to fix it. Who ever does it will probably just take the whole casting boss off the block and slowly build it back up. It will probably have to be done in an oven. Slowly brought up to temp, then welded, then slowly allowed to cool.

caseywan · Apr 2, 2007

I was just recommended to stitch weld the crack. Anybody know anything about stitch welding?

Roland69 · Apr 2, 2007

I think with cast you need to pre heat where you are going to weld

BlownFiveLiter · Apr 2, 2007

retro50 said:
Obviously you guys have never had the pleasure of drilling & tapping welded up cast Iron. Do a search on what is involved with this procedure before giving out advice.

Yes, it is an involved process, and yes, it is the type of work machine shops do. Mustangjoe87 hit the nail on the head by saying they probably don't want to do it. The risk of it failing does exist after the repair, which is probably why they don't want to do it, but that's not enough of a reason in my book. I'd pick a different machine shop.

JChalfan · Apr 3, 2007

What did the guy you bought it from say about all this? Is he paying for the repair?

caseywan · Apr 3, 2007

StangGT1995 said:
I don't know if they're any good, but there's a machine shop right in Mokena, somewhere on Wolf Rd. If you want, I could look up the phone number, since I don't have it right in front of me. I was going to use them to pull a broken intake bolt out of some GT40P's I was selling last year, but I was able to get it myself. You could give Winner's Circle a shout and see if they could handle it. I think their machine shop is at one of their other stores, but you could probably drop it off at the Joliet store and let them deal with getting it there and back if that's the case.

Called Winners Circle and they said they don't do machine work and I'd have to take it to Borowskis or Begler's in Wilmington.

I called that place in Mokena FX Engines, which I am a little familiar with but don't know anything about them. My first impression was that they are a little un-proffesional and not very involved, so I dunno. I just hate when you call a business and get a plain "Hello" not the name of the business or anything and have to ask if I have the right number. That's just a red flag in mind. But I'm going to take the block over there and see what they think anyway.

JChalfan said:
What did the guy you bought it from say about all this? Is he paying for the repair?

He seems like a good guy, is pretty active on NMRAracing.com and Corral. He said he would have thought he'd notice something like that and his machine shop would have too, but he wants to see the pictures and everything and then go from there. So I sent him the link to this thread.

What do you guys think about this crack in my A4 block

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