Engine What do you think?

[acso26]

I recently did the usual HCI build on my 91 vert. To me, it just doesn't have the power it should have for what I've put in it. Im hoping you all can set me straight on why it doesn't or if I'm just expecting too much. I made the following upgrades...Cold Air Intake, BBK 76mm MAF, SVE 70mm throttle body and spacer, Trick Flow Street heat upper and lower intake, Ford Racing GT40X heads, Anderson N41 cam, 1.6 Rocker Arms, BBK Shorty ceramic headers, Walbro 190LPH fuel pump, 24LB injectors MSD Billet Distributor set at 12 degrees. It has 3.73 rear gears too and mated to a T5 transmission
Honestly, It sounds terrific BUT, I can't tell much difference, power wise, from when it was stock. Im very disappointed! Ive seen videos of foxbodys with this set up breaking traction while driving in 2nd gear. Mine wont. I thought I'd see a big difference in the way it drove after the build. Am I expecting too much?

Thanks for your time!!!!

 

[General karthief]

Well yes and no.
I would try bumping the timing up to 14*. Have you checked for codes and verified fuel pressure?

 

[acso26]

Fuel pressure is great and no codes. I will try the 14 degrees.

 

[Hoytster]

That combo should be netting you some significant gains over stock, at least enough that you could tell the difference. The heads are your biggest limiting factor with your whole combo IMO, but my shot in the dark estimate is that combo should make ~280RWHP when fully sorted.

How did you tune the ECU for this setup?

 

[acso26]

I havent tuned the ECU at all. Its a stock A9P. My car was an AOD but I concerted it to a T5. Do you think a tune is necessary?

 

[acso26]

...also...do you think the heads are holding it back as well?

 

[Potomus Pete]

What do I think....Thats one of my biggest Fox fears. Ill spend $3000.00 on top end and not be able to chip or burn second. I want to be on a U-Tube video with my car like a Nascar race car. I have a Pro-M 75 T body 4 in. Power pipe headers exhaust ect.. Just no heads...Coming soon. I was thinking of some similar to yours so Im interested.

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

You have quite a range of parts listed. Just being blunt here but it's like no single part was planned with any other one. When you just throw random parts together they don't tend to run like you would want. It should, however, feel better than stock. I've never had luck without a tune once that much stuff has been changed. Just my thoughts.

 

[acso26]

I did a LOT of research on this set up before I did the build. Everything, article after article, said that the set up I have should be producing 300-310hp at the flywheel. I figured a loss of 8-10% through the drive train is about right. But, I figured I'd feel and see a big difference and I just dont. I thought 60hp should be at least noticeable.

You have quite a range of parts listed. Just being blunt here but it's like no single part was planned with any other one. When you just throw random parts together they don't tend to run like you would want. It should, however, feel better than stock. I've never had luck without a tune once that much stuff has been changed. Just my thoughts.

I appreciate you being blunt! I thought, from my research and planning(that came from posts on different forum sites as well as other people who have done similar builds that I know personally and have seen their cars) that those parts worked well together. So, you're you saying that I shouldve stuck with the same parts manufacturers? Like my trick flow intake with trick flow heads and cam? Or GT40 intake with a B cam with the heads that I have? Again, I appreciate the advice and Ill check into getting a tune.

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

Sure if you are looking for 300hp at the flywheel those parts should do that. My point is that the mix needs a tune in my opinion. I don't know how much you have in all that but a good Trick Flow top end kit would have matched up better and made significantly more power.
My info may be a bit dated though so let one of the guys chime in that currently tunes em and they can give you much better input.
Ummm...No on the B cam. The heads you have will limit you if you ever want to go for more power so I wouldn't invest and more money in them.

 

[General karthief]

Here is an example, maybe not a real good one but
used 87 ho engine, stock block and heads.
gt40 tubular intake, bbk tb (don't remember, I think 76mm?) C&L power pipe and maf (70mm?) Long tubes, 2 1/2" mandrel bent pipes, unknown mufflers. 3:55 gear, t5 in a 89 hatch.
nothing special street tires. 1st and 2nd gears are a ton of fun, I can 'chirp' it in third. I bounce it off the limiter in first quite often. I plan on installing a set of fresh gt40p heads on it soon with 1.7 roller rockers, been done a bunch of times. Very fun to drive
The vert is a little heavier so you need low end torque, the combo you have is good, in my opinion you need: different intake, cobra or explorer intake will get you torque down low where you need it (gt40 tubular intakes are slightly better but expensive) with the lower part ported. You will lose a little in the upper rpms but on the street it will not matter. Or a 4:10 gear, this will get you off the line better with the combo you have but again you will be running a higher rpm at highway speeds.
I like long tube headers for increased low end torque but there are opinions on that subject, starter heat soak, removing the starter is said to be a pain. I run a newer style so it's less of a hassle.
You could also try the track heat upper, it will bolt to the lower you already have but honestly I think that is not the way to go with the heads you have.
this is considering your engine is in good shape, compression is good and your ignition is doing its job. I personally would not use a aftermarket box like msd, the ford ignition very capable.
You also said you have no codes, does this mean you got a code 11 koeo and you ran the cylinder balance test and passed too?

 

[Hoytster]

IMO, if you are looking 300-310 FWHP, you have the combo to support that. I agree with what @Wayne Waldrep said in that the whole combo is kind of a mix of parts but I have seen very comparable setups to yours making in the ~280 RWHP range. The GT40x heads are your limiting factor, they are an old design and are were easily outperformed by the old TW170's, let alone the new head options you have today. Not that they are bad, just don't expect top tier performance out of them.

Personally, I would stick with what you have and tune it properly. I like your intake, I had good success with the street heat setup on my 95 cobra before upgrading and the N41 cam is a good cam for a gt40 headed street combo. With the combo you have, you won't see the true gains until you tune it properly (adjust timing curve for your heads/combo, injector timing for the cam, MAF transfer, ect, ect). One question, the BBK 76MM MAF you installed, was this calibrated for the 24lb injectors?

 

[Dan02gt]

You need to get it on the dyno and have the A/F checked. Something could be off or you could be expecting to much without seeing numbers. Now days with stock GTs making 460HP from the factory a fox that makes ~280hp to the wheels is not going to feel that fast. I will say that my car feels way faster than it was stock. I have AFR 165 heads, ported Cobra intake, and a Comp 264 Cam.

 

[2000xp8]

Tuning is going to make zero difference.
Gt40x heads were used for a long time successfully by many people.
Should be good for a minimum 275rwhp and probably a maximum of 300rwhp.

It's a mild combination of parts, nothing the computer can't easily handle, so don't get it in your head that it needs tuning or tuning is going to fix anything. Anyone that says other wise lacks experience.

Without a doubt you should feel that much power, if it's working right i'd guess at least a 60rwhp gain.

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

Tuning is going to make zero difference.
Gt40x heads were used for a long time successfully by many people.
Should be good for a minimum 275rwhp and probably a maximum of 300rwhp.

It's a mild combination of parts, nothing the computer can't easily handle, so don't get it in your head that it needs tuning or tuning is going to fix anything. Anyone that says other wise lacks experience.

Without a doubt you should feel that much power, if it's working right i'd guess at least a 60rwhp gain.

I guess I lack experience then. Who knew!

 

[2000xp8]

I guess I lack experience then. Who knew!

Maybe, lol.
Tuning these cars NA does little to nothing. The computer with the right meter and injectors will beat most if not all amateur tuners.
I've had a bunch of heads, intakes and cams. All ran just fine and made the power they were supposed to.
Some of those parts included a massive cam and extrude honed twisted wedges.
I used to watch my buddy put all these home built and tuned messes on the dyno, only to be beaten by simply returning the tuning to factory.

I happen to be lucky, I've had a friend that has been working in the mustang field since I was old enough to drive.
I've always gotten parts cheap, advice free and help for trade.

The X head can be good, but they are factory flawed, a valve job and bowl cleanup will net 15rwhp.
One guy I knew went 11.86 with a x head (valve jobbed, my buddy required all heads new or used to goto the machine shop, whether you liked it or not), retarded E cam and gt40 tubular. Made 316rwhp.

 

[Potomus Pete]

What about Edelbrock heads. Or Trickflow smaller size. shouldnt either one of those alone add sixty hoarse Or Gt40 heads its all in the heads no?? People say all the time GT 40 not worth the money .

 

[2000xp8]

Gt40's really aren't worth the money.
New they are like $1300, then they need to be valve jobbed at $250.
Used for $500 i'd take them all day (and I have), but new they are of poor value NIB.
Doesn't mean they can't work, but it's still not sensible for $1300, when you can buy TW's or AFR's at a similar price.
I'd put the edelbrocks in the same category at X heads. For the right price, I would buy them. NIB at full price I would not.
Just remember, used heads machine work has to be calculated into the purchase price. So at $750 into a set, you would be getting more than your money's worth.

 

[Blown88GT]

Forced induction is still the best bang for the buck.

 

[General karthief]

You didn't answer my question about the codes.
does not matter about how good those heads are he should 'feel' a difference. Something is amiss.