What would you do with this clutch?

cobradvm · Apr 18, 2004

What would you do with this clutch? Updated 04/11/04!!

See update below...

I replaced the stock clutch in my donor (1990GT) about 2000 miles or so ago. I put in Spec stage 1 and also put in a new stainless steel flywheel. Install was straightforward - no problems. This was my first install by the way. There was some slight chatter on break in, but it didn't last long. Thereafter the clutch worked great. I can run it up to 5000-6000 rpms with no problem Grabbed well - no problems. I also replaced the rear main seal while I was in there. It hadn't been leaking, but the car had over 100,000 miles so I did what everyone says to do, and replaced it.
Well, pretty much ever since I installed the clutch, I smell burning clutch every time I drive the car. It would smell especially when I was in stop and go traffic, and especially if going up hill where the clutch was getting feathered. I called Spec and they said no big deal. But every time I get out of the car it would smell like burning clutch and especially if I was getting on it.
Then I noted that the rear main seal was now leaking. It was very slight. No oil spots on the garage floor - I wiped the base of the metal sheet that sits in front of the bell housing, and then a day or two later, I would check it and sure enough it had a coat of oil on it.

So today I decided I would pull it all apart and do the rear main again. I ordered a crank shaft repair sleeve from Mike Forte, and am ready to go.
When I pulled the clutch, there were hotspots all over the flywheel and pressure plate and clutch dust every where. The flywheel is all grooved. It resembles real bad brake rotors - some of the grooves are probably at least 1/2mm deep. In fact the stock flywheel is in better condition and I don't think it had been replaced or ground. The rear of the flywheel looked clean. Here are some photos to give you an idea of what it looks like. Also there are links to some other photos.
Any idea what caused this? Would the a leaking rear main seal cause this - I don't think so, but don't have enough experience.
Should I return it all and ask to have it replaced?

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Howard

http://members16.clubphoto.com/howard772516/2232016/guest.phtml

SLiM JiM 156 · Apr 18, 2004

my guess would be that when you installed the rear main seal, it didnt seal all the way. Oil probabally got on the clutch surface and there were still dry spots. The clutch was probabally slipping because of that and where it grabbed most was burning off. Thats probabally why there are grooves in it.

Can you see any oil on the flywheel or pressure plate? If you can see oil they most likely wont give you another one. But if it looks clean try and return it and see what they say, the worst they can say is no...

cobradvm · Apr 18, 2004

The clutch and flywheel were spotless when they were installed. I don't see how oil from the other side of the flywheel could cause the spotting on the friction plate side and on the pressure plate - they both look equally bad. The oil leak is almost negligble and there was not really any oil build up anywhere.

Oh well

Howard

Look Its Aaron · Apr 18, 2004

Maybe you didn't brake in your clutch properly?

SLiM JiM 156 · Apr 18, 2004

oh my bad im a dumb****, i didnt even look at those pictures. Yeah did you break in the clutch properly?

cobradvm · Apr 18, 2004

Yes - took it easy for 1000 miles - no burn outs or powershifts.

Howard

Look Its Aaron · Apr 18, 2004

When you tightened down the pressure plate did you do it evenly, and a little bit at a time?

Look Its Aaron · Apr 18, 2004

cobradvm said:
Yes - took it easy for 1000 miles - no burn outs or powershifts.

Howard

Ok that's good but did you go WOT at anytime? Reguardless of burnouts or powershifting did you get on the car at all?

...answer honestly now...

25thmustang · Apr 18, 2004

My dad never broke in his clutch (well on the dyno, and then the track) and has no issues. What is the proper way to brake in a clutch, I didnt brake mine in, I just drove it (first night I got on it) and havent had one issue! Is there a proper way, and is it that important?

86T-Top · Apr 18, 2004

Was your clutch cable adjusted properly? Looks like the clutch was either never fully disingaging or ingauging.

Mario

cobradvm · Apr 18, 2004

I did break it in easy - never got on it for the recommended mileage and then some. I still don't drive it that hard - occasional semi-powershifting - but jeez this is a new clutch and it looks completely trashed.
Regarding the clutch cable, it automatically adjusted the first time I pressed the pedal and has been fine ever since. The Spec pressure plate is thinner compared to the stock, so there was some slack to take up. When I took it apart, the clutch cable wasn't tight - it was easy to pop it off the fork, so I'm fairly confident that the clutch wasn't engaging all the time. I am calling Spec tomorrow morning and see what they say.

When I installed the pressure plate I went as evenly as I could - tightening opposite bolts gradually until torque specs were reached. As I took it apart, I was pleased the way the bolts had been torqued down - it felt right (but what the hell do I know!!)

Thanks for the replies - I'm totally bummed out.

Howard

86T-Top · Apr 19, 2004

The only thing I can think of then, is that the clutch wasn't fully engaging when you pushed the clutch in. This will cause hot spots on the disc and warp the pressure plate. I have always been told that there should be some slack in the cable, but not enough that the cable will easily be able to come off the fork. I have always had to pry on the clutch fork to pop the cable off.

For your next clutch install, I would also install an adjustable cable and metal quadrent. I know it is always recomended by the aftermarket clutch companies, and have found that once I replace a clutch and still use a stock cable setup, I can't get the clutch to adjust properly.

Good luck getting it all solved.

Mario

EMW150 · Apr 19, 2004

Is the car pretty much stock? You may be better suited for a Stage II. I don't know anything about the Stage I. I know the Stage III eats flywheels. It's all in the disc material because the Spec pressure plates are somewhat mild as far as clamping force goes. I also wasn't aware that Spec had a stainless steel flywheel. I knew they had a billet SFI flywheel and I run one of their aluminum flywheels. Is that something new?

MUSTANGJOE · Apr 19, 2004

Who did the install?

cobradvm · Apr 19, 2004

I guess the flywheel is just steel, don't know if it is stainless or not.

I did the install and was my first time doing a clutch - I took my time it was pretty straightforward - it all went back together the same way it came apart.

howard.

v8only · Apr 19, 2004

86T-Top said:
The only thing I can think of then, is that the clutch wasn't fully engaging when you pushed the clutch in. This will cause hot spots on the disc and warp the pressure plate. I have always been told that there should be some slack in the cable, but not enough that the cable will easily be able to come off the fork. I have always had to pry on the clutch fork to pop the cable off.

For your next clutch install, I would also install an adjustable cable and metal quadrent. I know it is always recomended by the aftermarket clutch companies, and have found that once I replace a clutch and still use a stock cable setup, I can't get the clutch to adjust properly.

Good luck getting it all solved.

Mario

He's got a point, though he meant to say disengaging when the clutch was pushed in. After reading this, I would venture a guess that your clutch adjusment was indeed way too loose. This is why you smelt burning during stop and go traffic, etc. burning clutch smell is NEVER a norm on a regular basis, I don't care what anyone says.

What happened is your cable was too loose. When you stepped on the clutch pedal, it was not fully disengaging from the engine, resulting in partial contact between the flywheel and the clutch disc whenever you had your foot down. Instead, there should have been NO contact between those two when your foot is depressed. those excessive heat spots after only 2k is likely going to confirm this, as they kept rubbing each other causing burn, wear, and excessive heat.

There is NEVER supposed to be any slack in the clutch cable. The mustang t5 configuration is designed to take a constant amount of preload on the cable, meaning you want to adjust that until within about an inch of where the disengagement point is (which is about where the clutch pedal begins to feel stiff. You will know when you have hit point of disengagement when you feel a mushy pedal, then it suddenly gets stiff. That stiff point is the key. Adjust and tighen the cable until about inch of that stiff point)

YOur stock oem non adjustable plastic quadrant bs is what screwed you up, spring the cash for a steeda or upr quadrant and firewall adjuster this time.

On a side note, don't feel bad, I messed up my first clutch replacement, and so did my bro this very same way.

My bro just toasted a spec stage 1 after 5100k miles. the stage 1 clutches are organic, vs the stage 2 which are not. Personally, I have serious quality control questions/issues with spec. (his spec never stopped chattering) I'd go with a centerforce dual friction, or at the very minimum a stage 2 spec.

Please let me know what spec says, and if they replace your clutch, as we are about to try to do the same with my bro's spec.

cobradvm · Apr 19, 2004

v8only said:
There is NEVER supposed to be any slack in the clutch cable. The mustang t5 configuration is designed to take a constant amount of preload on the cable, meaning you want to adjust that until within about an inch of where the disengagement point is (which is about where the clutch pedal begins to feel stiff. You will know when you have hit point of disengagement when you feel a mushy pedal, then it suddenly gets stiff. That stiff point is the key. Adjust and tighen the cable until about inch of that stiff point)

YOur stock oem non adjustable plastic quadrant bs is what screwed you up, spring the cash for a steeda or upr quadrant and firewall adjuster this time.

So what you are saying is that I should have about 1" of easy travel on the clutch pedal, and then it gets stiff as the clutch disengages? I don't recall it being quite like that. The first time I pushed the clutch pedal in, it was all mushy, but I could hear the ratcheting of the automatic adjuster, and then it was stiff, but I don't recall exactly how much travel there was, but it was probably more than that, but it also wasn't like I had to shove it all the way to the floor either.

Anyways so far Spec has been responsive. They have issued an RMA number and I will return it tomorrow. I will order a quadrant and adjuster as well - that was going to get done at some stage as well anyway.

Thanks for the reply

Howard

kevin2m4 · Apr 19, 2004

call them up and tell them the clutch is showing signs of premature wearing and the guy on the phone said that the burning smell was normal. hopefully they will send yo a replacement

86T-Top · Apr 19, 2004

For your next install if you aren't sure if you have the cable adjusted properly, put the back of the car up on jack stands so that both rear tires are off the ground. Get in the car keep the door open and start her up. Put the car in gear and keep the clutch pushed in, check to see if the rear tires are moving at all. If they are the clutch is not fully dissengaging, and you need to tighten your clutch cable. Good luck with SPEC.

Mario

v8only · Apr 19, 2004

86T-Top said:
For your next install if you aren't sure if you have the cable adjusted properly, put the back of the car up on jack stands so that both rear tires are off the ground. Get in the car keep the door open and start her up. Put the car in gear and keep the clutch pushed in, check to see if the rear tires are moving at all. If they are the clutch is not fully dissengaging, and you need to tighten your clutch cable. Good luck with SPEC.

Mario

great advice!!!

AFTER reading your post on the corral, I am not so sure that it was mal adjustment. I am almost certain it is the same lousy spec build quality that my brother was subjected too. Hopefully they'll replace it free, but that will never make up for the two weekends spent replacing it.

What would you do with this clutch?

cobradvm

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SLiM JiM 156

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Look Its Aaron

Your car looks like it came straight from Mexico.

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Your car looks like it came straight from Mexico.

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Your car looks like it came straight from Mexico.

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