What you guys think of the patriot heads

[MyHoFoSho]

So i am having a cam made for my 347 project and the guy that is making my cam said that he did not like the patriot heads. He wants me to buy a set of canfield 195cc heads so i was wondering if any of you guys have either set of heads or know any one has a set of the patriot heads and how they have performed on a car. I have the heads allready so i am not sure what to do and right now i dont have the 1400 for the other heads so really i am asking the quality of the heads and should i just run with them or not cause i really want to get this 347 together this winter. Thanks guys on your thoughts on everything.

 

[NIKwoaC]

There was a huge thread dedicated to this a while back, do a search, you might be able to find it. From what I've read, they are JUNK. Flawed castings, poor components. I think the flow numbers are OK, but the heads themselves are poor quality.

 

[MyHoFoSho]

Like they wont fall apart on my engine will they i really dont want to put 5000 in this engine and drop a valve and kill the motor that would piss me off man.

 

[grey5.0beast]

I ran those heads on my old car, made 275hp and 307 tq with no tuning and a bunch of "new build" problems. Only thing I had to change on them that I didn't like was the adjustable guide plates, I have a s new set from comp cams BTW if your interested. Good heads though and great power band esp for street driving

 

[MyHoFoSho]

ya i just seen that on here grey i was looking for threads on the heads and found that on there they look really good out of the box and my grandpa has a set on a chevy 383 but has not been run yet and they look really good as well so i hope they are you are the only one i have heard of running them on a 5.0

 

[strtrcr50]

Ed Curtis did a review on hardcore5.0. link

 

[MyHoFoSho]

wow man mine dont look that bad at all they look really good

 

[89CobraGT]

I have a set to and there fine Im pretty sure there was just a few bad casts

 

[Foxfan88]

ive heard more bad than good. i'd pass on them and get some nicer heads that are proven to work well.

i was going to get some patriots but i didnt like the communication with the company and decided against them, i'm glad i did, there is a guy not too far from where i live that got some and one of the heads ended up having a problem (forgot what it was) and he had to get it fixed.

dont let the low prices fool you, more often than not you end up spending more in the end than you would if you just got the quality product starting out.

 

[strtrcr50]

Hey Guys,

Tony Mamo (The head of our R&D Dept.) wanted to come on here personally but is buried right now trying to tie up some loose ends before the long Holiday weekend. He may hop on here over the next few days.

We recently ordered a set of the new Patriot heads (under an alias of course) to make sure we received a true production piece (like any of you would be likely to receive).

While not terrible for the money, trying to compare them to a fully CNC ported premium AFR piece is a bit of a stretch. The heads were not deburred very well and you can see heavy machining marks on most of the surfaces, the as cast ports were not in line with the valvejob leaving large sharp steps on the seat ring, and they are assembled with un-concentric stamped steel locks I would be leary to run personally.

IMO, these heads should be marketed as exactly what they are….a good inexpensive option to sinking a bunch of money in a stock casting and would provide a nice increase in performance right out of the box. They shouldn't be expected to flow or make as much power as a fully CNC piece from AFR with a lot more time invested in the end product. Its apples and oranges….let's compare an AFR to another premium full CNC piece and we would have a more interesting conversation. BTW, this head was an obvious "as cast" copy of our 185 head as pictures of both our products side by side would easily show. I may post a few pics early next week after the long weekend.

Here were the flow numbers off our equipment using a Brezenski radiused entry on the inlet side and the same flowtube we use on all our SBF / SBC testing on the exhaust. By the way our advertised data on our 185 exhaust is old and doesn't reflect the addition of a flowtube which adds 10-15 CFM across the board. Tony is going to flow a 185 production part early next week to provide a good comparison. In the mean time I have included info from an AFR 165 head we spot flowed a few weeks ago….note this head only has a 1.900 intake valve (Versus the 2.02" in the Patriot).

Patriot 185 (as cast)

Lift…INT / EXH

.200" 141 / 91
.300" 194 / 131
.400" 218 / 159
.500" 233 / 169
.600" 245 / 175

(Yes the exhaust numbers are correlated with the right valve lift).

AFR 165 (100% CNC)
Lift…INT / EXH
.200" 133 / 122
.300” 190 / 162
.400” 230 / 189
.500” 248 / 198
.600” 254 / 205

Im sure this is going to be a controversial post but it is what it is….

Happy Holidays!
Jason Dow
__________________
AFR Tech/Sales (661) 257-8124 Ext. 124
Feel free to call, E-mail, or PM me anytime for anything!


PS….Gunnar, Tony told me to tell you to feel free to contact him about the flow testing if you are questioning anything.

With a cleanup these heads could be a good bit better, but major work would have to be done in order to straighten out bad port alignment. In the end you would have decent flow numbers but a considerably larger runner volume ultimately yielding a lesser curve....and at what cost?

Jason
__________________
AFR Tech/Sales (661) 257-8124 Ext. 124
Feel free to call, E-mail, or PM me anytime for anything!

The TFS and AFR heads are in a completely different league (and price range) then the Patriot….place the three on a table next to one another and that becomes obvious. The quality of the castings, machine work, and critical dimensions are held to a much tighter tolerance (the guides in the new Patriot head were over .004!)

The 185 TFS head flowed right along side our new 185 Comp head about to be released (on the intake side), but our exhaust was a hair better. Don’t forget our 185 Comp is still a standard 20’ direct bolt-on design and the TFS has a slightly larger cross section due to the shorter port at the same volume. The 185 TFS was notably better than our current 185 street head but of course is priced accordingly higher.

On the Patriot heads, we did a full evaluation here like we would one of our own. I think Ed Curtis might post a few pics when he gets a chance of a set he received so you guys can get a better idea. The set we got failed most of our obviously higher QC standards. We even had to change the test scale of the very expensive air gauge we have that measures guide clearance to five decimals just to get a reading on the Patriots….most of them were slightly over .004! (they had noticeable “wobble” by hand). Some of the valvejobs sealed up better than others and a few had notable leakage (daylight) between the seat and valve.


Guys, once again this head costs a lot less money but your not getting a comparable product….you simply have another option/decision on whether you want to spend more for the higher flowing better quality piece. IMO, the Patriot should be marketed as a good alternative to sinking a bunch of money in a stock casting, not as competition to some of the higher end products on the market such as our own and TFS.

Thank you,
Jason Dow
__________________
AFR Tech/Sales (661) 257-8124 Ext. 124
Feel free to call, E-mail, or PM me anytime for anything!

For your 347, I'd look into bigger heads than the patriot. If AFR's test is accurate, the flow less than a 165 which i'd say is too small for a 347. Just my opinion.

 

[MyHoFoSho]

so then what you guys know about the canfield heads 195cc cause the guy making my cam said that is the heads he would suggest for my 347 so any one have these are know any one that does to let me know how they are. Thanks

 

[89CobraGT]

So I decided to speak to a representative I asked him the things I've heard and all the things wrong with them he simply said:

"We did have some issues in the past with the small block Ford heads, but that has all been resolved now. How old are the reviews you are looking at? As of 2 years or so ago, all problems have been fixed"

Thank you,

Chad Bowling

Patriot Performance

1.888.462.8276

www.patriot-performance.com

 

[nick6690]

from what i have heard they are made in china.

 

[strtrcr50]

So I decided to speak to a representative I asked him the things I've heard and all the things wrong with them he simply said:

"We did have some issues in the past with the small block Ford heads, but that has all been resolved now. How old are the reviews you are looking at? As of 2 years or so ago, all problems have been fixed"

Thank you,

Chad Bowling

Patriot Performance

1.888.462.8276

www.patriot-performance.com

What I posted was 11 months old or so.

 

[grey5.0beast]

I checked the port alignment on my heads and had them checked out off the car by a damn reputable shop in my area. Like I said the only thing I had to swap was the guide plates and they were 22 dollars new. Here are my initial pics. Good heads for the money, if you need bigger, go bigger.

 

[795.0pacecar]

They may be alright as far as build quality is concerned, but they dont make the "out of the box" power that the more reputable heads do. The pro comps that I had looked nice too, but just like with your patriot heads they didn't make near the expected or advertised horsepower. You could have made the same hp with a set of GT40p heads as you did with the patriots but for much less.

For a few hundred extra bucks you can have a set of trickflows or AFRs that will produce 30+ more rwhp than the patriots. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Beasty306GT]

Get some gt-40 aluminum svo heads

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I have a friend making right at 500rwhp with a set of them on a 393 stroker. I haven't heard any complaints by him.

 

[mwood]

First, I think you should have this decided before your cam is ground. Next thought would be to get them bare so the cam grinder can choose the springs. This way he can get all the flow needed to take advantage of that stroker. I have canfield195's for my 408. Canfield and trick flows have a ton of room for porting.

Just a guess, you going with Jay Allen?

 

[MyHoFoSho]

Yes that is what i am doing trying to pick the heads i want before i get the cam ground and yes the guy going to make the cam is Jay Allen i here he make some great stuff and that is why i was taking his word on those heads and i think i am going to try and sell the patriots and get some of the canfields.