Wheel Hop..

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

I ran a search and read all of the threads and I am still not clear on which direction to go.
Car info:
65 fastback 347 with 382 RWHP.
G Force T-5 (2.94 1st gear)
3.89 ford 9"
Koni red vintage shocks
4 leaf springs
Maier racing sub frame connectors
Rear tires: Bridgestone Potenza S03 pole position 245X45X18
Shelby underrider traction bars
Pinion angles are correct

This car has wheel hop like crazy..(1st gear and 2nd gear)
No way can I even spin a tire.
I am afraid to jump on it as I might break something..
Looking for suggestions..
Thanks,
Scott

DrStang · Jun 22, 2006

Broken or insufficient motor mounts will also cause this symptom. I'd bet a torque strap would get rid of your problem as it seems that you have a good setup already (traction bars).

gsxrken · Jun 22, 2006

That is alot of RWHP- nice job. But now 4 leafs may not be up to the task. The GW and Maier springs are in the 160 and 200 lb rate range... your 4 leafs are maybe 125- maybe.
Also, you must remove any lowering blocks as spacing the spring further from the axle really adds to the problem.

SoCalCruising · Jun 22, 2006

If you are using stock-like shackles and front rubber bushings, you might want to swap them for Del-Alums or poly bushings. This will allow less front-to-rear motion of the spring and should assist your traction bars hold the rear steady. Yes, lowering blocks exacerbate the problem through leverage. I use GW de-arched 5-leafs, Del-Alums, and CureRide (soft valved) shocks and have no hoppity, even with a 1" lowering block.

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

gsxrken said:
That is alot of RWHP- nice job. But now 4 leafs may not be up to the task. The GW and Maier springs are in the 160 and 200 lb rate range... your 4 leafs are maybe 125- maybe.
Also, you must remove any lowering blocks as spacing the spring further from the axle really adds to the problem.

Thanks for the response and the compliment on the RWHP #.
However thanks goes to FRPP as this is one of thier crate engines
(M6007-c347)
I am very happy with this engine
I don't have lowering blocks.
Do you think that a stouter leaf spring will resolve my problem?
It kind of makes sense to me as a stouter spring will distort less under the torque produced when power is applied.
Some of the threads I have read have suggested getting rid of the underriders and going to a "slapper bar" type traction (OLD SCHOOL)devices while others believe that I need to use a slide-a link system.
Scott

ga289stocker · Jun 22, 2006

Ok here is my 02. I do speak from experience w/ this I to have a 65 2+2
not as much power but same wheelhop issue. I had 4 leafs w/ 1" lowering
blocks and kyb shocks in rear. I put on the underide bars and still had wheelhop at the track. Took some great advise from another experience racer w/ these early model Mustangs. I replaced the kyb's w/ Rancho 99204
9 way adjustable shocks and also put 3 spring clamps on each side on the front part of the springs. I was skeptical to say the least. I just went to the
track last friday and under hard acceleration and tire spin absolutely no wheelhop I was amazed. I still have the stock replace 4 leafs, lowering blocks and underide
bars in place. Here is a link to my site w/ pic's of suspension mods. I will sware by this, at least for my car. I don't have even have subframes on mine yet. My car is a 4sp.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/835961/5

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

ga289stocker said:
Ok here is my 02. I do speak from experience w/ this I to have a 65 2+2
not as much power but same wheelhop issue. I had 4 leafs w/ 1" lowering
blocks and kyb shocks in rear. I put on the underide bars and still had wheelhop at the track. Took some great advise from another experience racer w/ these early model Mustangs. I replaced the kyb's w/ Rancho 99204
9 way adjustable shocks and also put 3 spring clamps on each side on the front part of the springs. I was skeptical to say the least. I just went to the
track last friday and under hard acceleration and tire spin absolutely no wheelhop I was amazed. I still have the stock replace 4 leafs, lowering blocks and underide
bars in place. Here is a link to my site w/ pic's of suspension mods. I will sware by this, at least for my car. I don't have even have subframes on mine yet. My car is a 4sp.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/835961/5

Nice looking FB!
I wonder what made the difference?
The spring clamps or the shocks? (or both)
I am hoping that I can hang on to my Koni's as they were pretty expensive.
They are supposed to be a good shock.
Are the spring clamps just a inexpensive quick fix for a weaker set of springs?
At this point I am thinking that I need to step up and buy a set of better/stouter leaf springs..
Scott

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

I wanted to post up my track times in order to provide more info..
Best run 13.2 with a 110 mph trap speed and a 2.2 60' time.
This was with a 3.25 rear end. I went thru the traps in 3rd gear @ approx 5600 rpm's. I have since installed a 3.89 gear set which I believe will make a big difference if I can correct this wheel hop issue
Scott

Vinyl66 · Jun 22, 2006

I witnessed David (ga289stocker) 2 different times at the strip and he had horrible wheel hop the first time out and launched nice and smooth this past weekend with clamped leaves and adjustable shocks.

If I were you I would first try clamping the leaf springs together with 3 clamps on each side just forward of the axle. It is cheap and easy enough to do and just may get rid of the hop.

Good looking car by the way steemin! It should really haul a double s.

Vinyl66 · Jun 22, 2006

steemin said:
I wanted to post up my track times in order to provide more info..
Best run 13.2 with a 110 mph trap speed and a 2.2 60' time.
This was with a 3.25 rear end. I went thru the traps in 3rd gear @ approx 5600 rpm's. I have since installed a 3.89 gear set which I believe will make a big difference if I can correct this wheel hop issue
Scott

You've got WAY more et in that car steemin. My car has a mild 347 build up and I ran that exact mph this past Friday night at Atlanta Dragway. I was running on some 215/60 14 BFG drag radials and ran 12.1's. My 2 best runs are 12.12 and 12.14 with a little tire spin off the start and 1.75 and 1.76 60 footers respectively.

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

Vinyl66 said:
You've got WAY more et in that car steemin. My car has a mild 347 build up and I ran that exact mph this past Friday night at Atlanta Dragway. I was running on some 215/60 14 BFG drag radials and ran 12.1's. My 2 best runs are 12.12 and 12.14 with a little tire spin off the start and 1.75 and 1.76 60 footers respectively.

WOW! nice times

I realize that my car is not set up for the strip.
It is more of a pro-touring type car.
It handles the curves pretty well for an older car..
Maybe I am just being shallow but I would like to have a mid 12 or better time slip
Scott

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

Question..
Does using spring clamps on the leafs essentially do the same thing as installing stouter leafs on the car??

ga289stocker · Jun 22, 2006

Well, I'm no expert but the spring clamps for sure help control the leaf sepeartion that occurs under hard acceleration. Before I put the clamps on I inspected the leafs and at some points there were small gaps where the springs over lay on each other. After the clamps were put on the gaps were all just about gone. I also noticed that the crappy wrap around clamps that come w/ the springs appeared to be doing nothing as i could slide them up and down my springs several inches. I got my clamps off ebay new for $5.99 pkg of 2. Just do a search for them and several should come up. Are the Koni's gas charged? I ask as I had the kyb's which are gas charged. I was told that those shocks will actually perpetuate wheelhop as they can not react fast enough. Again I'm just relaying what one far more knowlegable person was trying to explain to me. I think the clamps could do wonders for you and it's far cheaper and easier than going all out for new springs. fyi..
the rancho's were about $200 from summit.

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

The Koni's are hydraulic..
I am going to install a set of the spring clamps this weekend.
I really do not like the look of the clamps but if it resolves my problem I can
then go ahead and install a new set of leafs with confidence...
Scott

180 Out · Jun 22, 2006

I don't think bigger springs are going to help. I had the Maier 4.5 leaf springs on my kids' '65 and had terrible wheel hop. They don't come much stiffer than the Maier 4.5 leaf springs. For that matter, Caltrac recommends that you go with their monoleaf springs when running the Caltrac bars. This combo is known to control wheel hop on even 9 second cars. I don't know if Caltrac monoleaf springs are stiffer than a Maier 4.5, but I kind of doubt it. As in all things, it's all in the combo.

Also, you're right to worry about breaking things with wheel hop. You will: things like U-joints, spring brackets, and worse case your ring gear. So take it easy until you fix the prob.

steemin · Jun 22, 2006

180 Out said:
I don't think bigger springs are going to help. I had the Maier 4.5 leaf springs on my kids' '65 and had terrible wheel hop. They don't come much stiffer than the Maier 4.5 leaf springs. For that matter, Caltrac recommends that you go with their monoleaf springs when running the Caltrac bars. This combo is known to control wheel hop on even 9 second cars. I don't know if Caltrac monoleaf springs are stiffer than a Maier 4.5, but I kind of doubt it. As in all things, it's all in the combo.

Also, you're right to worry about breaking things with wheel hop. You will: things like U-joints, spring brackets, and worse case your ring gear. So take it easy until you fix the prob.

What did you do to resolve the wheel hop on your kids car..
I am taking it easy on the car until I resolve the problem.
You can only imagine how hard it is to resist jumping on it!
Scott

ga289stocker · Jun 22, 2006

Yeah, there not the prettiest things to look at but they work. You will probably have to cut off some material from them as mine were pretty long. I didn't even thing about shouting them w/ some black paint to try and camofolgue them... anyway let us know how it turns out.

68RCodeConv · Jun 22, 2006

Your springs are "wrapping up" under load. Stiffer springs will help but what you really need is a traction device (like a Caltrac) that counteracts the spring wrapup. Caltrac mono leaf springs and traction devices will solve all your problems.

Pbum5 · Jun 22, 2006

I had the same problem.
I am assuming you have a tracloc rear.
Pegleg is no match for that much power.

sounds like you want an allround rear setup instead of the mono leaf/calvert thing which is best for the 1/4 mile.

I went with Maier 165 rear leafs. the rear is planted a lot better than my old setup.

Call maier and see if the suggest the 165 or 200 springs. Also went with heavy duty shackles and poly bushings.

DK832 · Jun 23, 2006

Got plenty wheelhop too. My recipe is 5-leaf Grab-a-trac rears, Competition Engineering Slidealink traction bars and playing with the settings on the SPAX shocks. It's all going in this weekend, will report on results ASAP.

Wheel Hop..

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