Engine Which cooling part first?

[Dontknowchit]

Need to upgrade cooling on my v3 charged hatch. Running stock rad single core with shroud and single 16in deharale? Fan. I'm able to keep up, but just barely and it's not hot out yet. Put spacers on my hood hinges to help for now.

Planning on upgrading to a 2 or 3 core with dual fans. Likley both from LMR but not 100% sold yet. Recent reviews of the repop "contour" fans showing they are not as strong as the OG Ford ones. I want to make ice cubes with this combo!

If someone was forced due to budget to upgrade one at a time, which is more impactful, new rad with same electric fan or new fans with single core rad?

 

[gkomo]

Can you even put a 3 core radiator on a v3 supercharged 5.0? My stock radiator barely fits with the upper coolant pipe so close to my Novi 1220SL pulley.

 

[Dontknowchit]

Can you even put a 3 core radiator on a v3 supercharged 5.0? My stock radiator barely fits with the upper coolant pipe so close to my Novi 1220SL pulley.

It's a fair point. Depends on the fan/ rad combo I think. I don't want to cut hood vents but I may have to. With headers it gets plenty toasty in there!

 

[KRUISR]

Is this combo a new set up (or did you run the same last year)?
What kind of shroud do you have?
Any pics of the set up?

 

[Dontknowchit]

Is this combo a new set up (or did you run the same last year)?
What kind of shroud do you have?
Any pics of the set up?

Yup, a new configuration. The supercharger just got put on this spring. The fan was previously mounted to the stock rad directly. I made the shroud for it a few weeks ago in an attempt to improve airflow. It's a baking sheet, cut with sheet metal snips, sealed with vac line tubing and bolted to the rad. It came out decent and improved flow quite a bit. It brought down temps and estimate of 5-7 at heat soaked cruise. Another 5-7 reduction by placing spacers on hood hinges. Only about 3/8ths clearance between the supercharger crank hub and the fan hub temperatures were fine before the supercharger. It's not overheating but it's just May and I'm in Tennessee so I need a bit more breathing room. The engine bay just seems to get heat soaked. Stock temp staying between 3rd and 4th tick, which I think is 210-215? Was running solidly at 4th tick.

 

[Noobz347]

I would install a stock shroud and clutch fan. It looks like there's room.

It will move more air than any electric setup.

 

[KRUISR]

What temperature T-stat do you have? 210-215 is not overheating, its normal. Where is your fan controller temp sensor located (where is it reading temp)? Are the fins on your A/C and rad straight (letting air through enough)?

To lower engine bay temps I put heat wrap on my headers. It noticeably dropped temps.

 

[Dontknowchit]

I would install a stock shroud and clutch fan. It looks like there's room.

It will move more air than any electric setup.

Wait....what!? 100% the first time I had heard that. Stock fans cool better!? Why do people take them off!?

 

[Noobz347]

Wait....what!? 100% the first time I had heard that. Stock fans cool better!? Why do people take them off!?

It shaves a couple HP off of the accessory drive. For the street tho.... Pshhhhhhhhhh

Mine clears the leaves off the driveway in the fall.

 

[Dontknowchit]

What temperature T-stat do you have? 210-215 is not overheating, its normal. Where is your fan controller temp sensor located (where is it reading temp)? Are the fins on your A/C and rad straight (letting air through enough)?

To lower engine bay temps I put heat wrap on my headers. It noticeably dropped temps.

It's a 195 tstat, the probe is right at the inlet hose and I turned the resistor down all the way. It's an a/c car but lines were removed (will replace some day) so I removed A/C rad. It was well bent up anyway. Also have cobra insert so getting a little more air than stock. I want to upgrade to long tubes so will definitely wrap them but thinking a header removal will be multiple broken studs as they appear to have been there a good while as installed before I owned it.

 

[Noobz347]

How many amps does it take achieve 3 HP (average of OEM fan setup on a heat soaked engine, running full-tilt).

At 13.5V (typical running voltage): ~195 amps.
At 12V (nominal battery voltage): ~219 amps.

What does a typical electric fan motor produce? 35 to 45 amps continuous?

 

[Dontknowchit]

How many amps does it take achieve 3 HP (average of OEM fan setup on a heat soaked engine, running full-tilt).

At 13.5V (typical running voltage): ~195 amps.
At 12V (nominal battery voltage): ~219 amps.

What does a typical electric fan motor produce? 35 to 45 amps continuous?

Lol, can you imagine the size of a 220A rad fan motor!

 

[Noobz347]

Lol, can you imagine the size of a 220A rad fan motor!

Right?

Electric fan advantages:

Lightens engine load
Turbo Timers / electric water pumps / etc.
Relatively small package
Cool factor
Doesn't waste as much energy as clutch fans


Clutch Fan Advantages:

It just moves a ton of air
It's Overkill

 

[nickyb]

I live on the sun, Nevada ,Henderson to pinpoint. Constant 100+ days all fing summer.
I have a black magic fan and cheap two core alum. Rad.
I run my a/c and never overheat.
If I we're you I'd do the rad.first and see how good your fan does.
Caution: this is free advice , take it for its face value.

 

[KRUISR]

Just so you know where I'm coming from - I have an OEM style copper/brass 3 core rad with used OEM dual Contour fans. They are controlled by a temp sensor in the lower rad hose (to measure temperature AFTER the rad does its thing). I have a 180 T-stat and a dual temp fan controller sensor. Low speed turns on at 205, off at 185. High speed turns on at 215, off at 190/195 (I think). My car is NA. When driving outside of stop and go, the fans NEVER come on - natural airflow through the rad will keep it cool even on a 90's degree day. Stop and go will cause low speed to turn on. High speed has NEVER come on due to reaching high speed temp setting.

I like your home made shroud, it looks like it will work well. If you go with a thicker rad I would rebuild your shroud with the fan offset to the driver side to clear the crank pulley/belts.

If you don't trust an aftermarket Contour fan for reliability, you can use the shroud housing and replace the fans blades/motors with a pair out of the wreckers from a 2000-2007 Focus dual fan assembly. One of the fans is 5 blade and the other is 11 blade and it moves more air than stock Contour fan blades. You would just need to find 2 of these. The motor/blade assembly will bolt directly in place of the Contour units. They use the same plug as the Contour as well.

 

[KRUISR]

How many amps does it take achieve 3 HP (average of OEM fan setup on a heat soaked engine, running full-tilt).

At 13.5V (typical running voltage): ~195 amps.
At 12V (nominal battery voltage): ~219 amps.

What does a typical electric fan motor produce? 35 to 45 amps continuous?

I have read (and believe from real world experience) that removing the clutch fan gains about 15-20 hp. Now I say gains, it is really just not wasting it by constantly spinning the clutch fan. So instead of a 240hp motor being drawn down to 225hp, it will remain at 240 with the clutch fan removed.

Contour dual fans will spike initial amp draw to 70amp range and run 30-35amps continuous running both fans - I have tested and documented this.

 

[Noobz347]

I have read (and believe from real world experience) that removing the clutch fan gains about 15-20 hp.

I think that is [hugely] inflated. My personal observation on back-to-back dynos with a 302 without and then with and accessory drive [at all] (carbed) was less than that (including the water pump).

I also recall that most of the gains without an accessory drive were at the top of the RPM range. (Meaning that higher HP engines will see more effect the faster they spin)

 

[Noobz347]

After thinking about it for a minute, I can see how both can be true.

The faster you try and accelerate that spinning mass, the more power it's going to cost.

My example is a pretty plain-jane, HCI combo on a 302.

@KRUISR , your example must be from a significantly higher HP combo.

 

[AeroCoupe]

What will help you is a fan like a Lincoln Mark VIII. Motor is offset enough in the shroud you can get it away from the pulleys or at least that is what I remember some of the guys with blowers using.

Good thread here:

Thread 'Blown Guys- Which Radiator You Running?'

Aug 20, 2016

Ok. Now that I have your attention.

Guys with a Vortech, which radiator are you running and which of these three would you go with

1. Griffin 26272-X 31 x 19 2 row 1" tubes. core thickness 2 " Largest radiator that will fit and proven to cool. Not a direct fit as you have to bend out the A/C lines and the outlet is 1 3/4". All aluminum and welded. At $175 it is the cheapest 2 year warranty. Doesnt come with petcock

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-1-26272-X/

2. Champion 3 row CC138- 3 row all aluminum welded. Around $200 and lifetime warranty 29 x 17 drop in. no...

• mikestang63
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

 

[limp]

I have always thought its hard to improve upon something Ford paid their engineers millions of dollars to design...