which ProM to replace my C&L 76mm MAF?

svasica · Apr 26, 2004

I am having problems with my C&L...i think its causing my idle surge problems, so I heard ppl say a Pro M should help. Which should I be lookin at gettin to fix my surge idle problems?

Auto Reverse · Apr 27, 2004

Dude, with that power you should be in the mid to high 11's. Your sound system must be weighing you down or something.

Anyway, I have a C&L 76mm MAF and I'm not having any problems. Might want to dig a little deeper before discarding a $180 part.

xplo89gt · Apr 27, 2004

I would be sure first that it isn't any other problems.

But that said, C&L have been known to be hit or miss. For some they work fine, for others they cause problems. It has been more common in their older MAF the 73mm one.

I have a PRO-M 75mm and it works great. You have a bigger setup, so I would probably go with one of their bigger ones. I would say 80mm but again im not sure, check their website.

N8Miller · Apr 27, 2004

By any chance did you call C&L?
i really dont see that being a hugh problem, but it could be. Its worth spending 20 minutes on the phone with them now rather than buying the Pro-m and finding out thats not the problem.
I called Pro-m once, they said that you can check the voltage of the maf. maybe you will want to do that too.

oh yeah, i agree with the 11s that were said before. AOL IM me, my combo is close to yours... just to BS.

svasica · Apr 28, 2004

Yea I agree with you gentleman, and I WILL be in the LOW LOW LOW 12's to high 11's this year. Anyway, only reason I'm looking at replacing the C&L is because I was told by Laroccas shop that the C&L could be causing some of my idleing problems....also, I NEVER run at the track with the stereo system in. I have it setup so I can rip out the box, amps, cap, and power block all in one shot (about 80 lbs worth).

N8Miller · Apr 28, 2004

is there anybody that you know that will have a pro-m cal. or 30s? if you do, just try a simple swap for a bit. if you lived closer, i'd trade ya for a day or so.

Ive been trying to catch you on AOL IM, but your never on.

Biggeley · Apr 29, 2004

I see that you are running a MAC cold air intake.. I would first try swapping back to your stock airbox first before discarding the MAF. Those cold air intakes are very notorious for causing drivability problems. They tend to screw with the airflow characteristics enough that it makes the MAF not meter properly. I just removed a BBK CAI to get rid of a bogging/rough idling problem.

N8Miller said:
is there anybody that you know that will have a pro-m cal. or 30s? if you do, just try a simple swap for a bit. if you lived closer, i'd trade ya for a day or so.

Ive been trying to catch you on AOL IM, but your never on.

sleeper89 · Apr 29, 2004

Biggeley said:
I see that you are running a MAC cold air intake.. I would first try swapping back to your stock airbox first before discarding the MAF. Those cold air intakes are very notorious for causing drivability problems. They tend to screw with the airflow characteristics enough that it makes the MAF not meter properly. I just removed a BBK CAI to get rid of a bogging/rough idling problem.

agreed. but before you take out the CAI try to "clock" the MAF sensor. that is, when you look at the MAF now the electrical connector is likely facing straight up (12 o clock). with the car running try slowly turning it in towards the engine (3 o clock) to see if the idle smooths out at all. for most guys this is enough to quell the surge. if it doesn't, then i'd try removing the CAI and put the stock airbox back on.

-steve

bmo37 · Apr 29, 2004

jimmy sells the pro-m and the ford eec programmer thats y he's partial to the pro-m but I still agree, c&l is good for stock cars but any modified ones they suck. The tube trick just doesn't work when u through a cold air kit or boosted aplication into the mix.

houstonstangguy · Apr 29, 2004

svasica said:
I am having problems with my C&L...i think its causing my idle surge problems, so I heard ppl say a Pro M should help. Which should I be lookin at gettin to fix my surge idle problems?

Engine mods:
331 Keith Craft Stroker, TFS TW heads, TFS Stage II cam, 1.6 TFS rockers, TFS Track Heat Intake, 2 core aluminum radiator, 75mm Accufab TB, 76mm C&L MAF kit, BBK underdrive pulleys, 130 amp altenator, 180 degree Thermostat, Moroso Fender wall kit, Mark VIII Electric Fan
Exhaust mods:
MAC 1 5/8 Long Tube headers, offroad H-Pipe, Dynomax Superturbos
Fuel system:
Adjustable FPR, 190 lph fuel pump, 30# injectors, steady diet of RICE!!
drivetrain:
Tremec 3550, 3.73 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, Aluminum driveshaft, Centerforce Dual friction clutch & pressure plate, adjustable clutch cable
suspension mods:
Eibach drag launch kit, Adjustable rear Competition Engineering shocks, Megabite Jr LCA's, JD's Double Adj. UCA's (Pinion Angle set at -2.5*), J&M round tube subframes, Lakewood front 70/30, polyurathane bushings all around

your mods look alot like mine. I am using the pro m 80mm but was using the 75mm bullet before a few weeks ago. that probably is your problem. this debate always goes on. some people dont have problems with pro m and some do, some dont have problems with c&l, some do. borrow a buddies just for a bit. swap it out and you will find out pretty quick.

on a different note why didnt you go bigger on the cam?? i wanted an ed curtis custom but couldnt swing the cash right then, so had to go with the stage3........its a pretty sweet cam.

I have been debating a 70mm or 75mm t.b so Ill probably try both before I decide.

what is your timing and fuel pressure set at??

Joe

houstonstangguy · Apr 29, 2004

lol, i just realized that alot of us in this thread have 331 with similar combos. N8, what are you making to the wheels??

auto reverse, i see your power but it seems to me you should be putting down more with those heads, what do you think?? it is hard for me to say for sure with your cam, because i am not familiar with those kind of cams.....are your numbers close to ours?

bmo37, what are you putting down with your 347??

laters

svasica · Apr 29, 2004

N8, my AOL IM is steevie79....i'm on sometimes, but not to often. I don't know anybody that has a Pro-M, otherwise I would definentaly switch to try and see if its my MAF or not.

Sleeper89, I've tried "clocking" the MAF, but it didn't seem to help much.

BMO37, I agree with the C&L being ok for stock setup, but not for me. I had the C&L before I did the mods, and it was fine.

Houstonstanguy, which Pro-M would you recommend for my setup? I didn't go to big with the cam because I wanted it to be streetable, and even with this cam I have a few issues. I WISH I had gone with a custom grind! I had my fuel pressure and timing set by Laroccas when I had a dyno tune. I'm pretty sure my fuel pressure is about 38 (may be a little lower because I was running PIG rich before I had the car dyno tuned)....timing is at about 14 I believe. Once again, this was what the dyno tune liked the most.

powershift351 · Apr 29, 2004

Auto Reverse said:
Dude, with that power you should be in the mid to high 11's. Your sound system must be weighing you down or something.

Anyway, I have a C&L 76mm MAF and I'm not having any problems. Might want to dig a little deeper before discarding a $180 part.

Not true, I run a 12.38 on street tires and a 12.08 on meats. I am pounding down 348 rwhp and 397rwtq. I have that P.O.S. C&L 76mm, and I want the 80 mm Pro-m

houstonstangguy · Apr 29, 2004

svasica said:
N8, my AOL IM is steevie79....i'm on sometimes, but not to often. I don't know anybody that has a Pro-M, otherwise I would definentaly switch to try and see if its my MAF or not.

Sleeper89, I've tried "clocking" the MAF, but it didn't seem to help much.

BMO37, I agree with the C&L being ok for stock setup, but not for me. I had the C&L before I did the mods, and it was fine.

Houstonstanguy, which Pro-M would you recommend for my setup? I didn't go to big with the cam because I wanted it to be streetable, and even with this cam I have a few issues. I WISH I had gone with a custom grind! I had my fuel pressure and timing set by Laroccas when I had a dyno tune. I'm pretty sure my fuel pressure is about 38 (may be a little lower because I was running PIG rich before I had the car dyno tuned)....timing is at about 14 I believe. Once again, this was what the dyno tune liked the most.

Honestly, I didn't have issues with the 75 bullet but I definitely picked up at least 6 or more to the wheels over the 75. its hard to tell. I can't prove it because we changed some other stuff like timing and fuel pressure but I would swear it was closer to 10 to the wheels over the 75. I could be wrong but my tuner changed my plugs (3924's gapped at 42) and said I need to change them for my motor every month........yours should be the same.

it was down on power from 347.6 from the last dyno to 341. just swapping the plugs (that were from december) jumped it back to 347. but i already had the 80 on. he dropped my fuel pressure from 46psi back and dyno'd it, back and dyno'd it, back and dyno'd it........he ended up leaving it at 41psi. I had tried adjusting the timing at the beginning of the month but i put it back up to 16 like he had it. that was what it finished it. after several dyno runs with just the fuel pressure, it went from 350. something to 353.4 to finish.

he told me i needed to swap my 180 thermostat to a 160 like he told me in december, now that it is summer.

I would say get on corral.net/classifieds and find a 75 or 80mm used. then turn around and sell yours. I sold my 75 on there for 125 shipped with the stock rubber elbow and mounting bracket. I bought my 80 for 150, so i wasnt out too much at all.

if you can find the 80 i would say get it, the 75's are all over the place, even for 30lb inj.

what kind of issues are you having with the cam??

svasica · Apr 29, 2004

Does the Pro-M sample the air the same way the C&L does with a tube? I know the Pro-M Univer used a 360 degree sampling technique which I can see solving my problems.

This is probably a stupid question, but I'm not sure so i'll ask. The Pro-M's come with a new sensor right?...which is calibrated specifically for the injectors you use?

Well, my cam is not necessarily giving me problems...its just more the performance. It doesn't make enough low end torque. If I had a cam custom ground I would want something with a little more low end torque.

houstonstangguy · Apr 29, 2004

powershift351 said:
Not true, I run a 12.38 on street tires and a 12.08 on meats. I am pounding down 348 rwhp and 397rwtq. I have that P.O.S. C&L 76mm, and I want the 80 mm Pro-m

not that I have an opinion either way on his time or yours (both respectable times), just wondering how much weight you think you are giving up with the 351 over our 302 strokers? I bet you would be in the 11's with that power on a 302 stroker. I am also sure you will be very soon even with your heavier 351.

86Cobra · Apr 29, 2004

The Pro-M 80 is a much better meter than the Pro-M 75 or C&L. If you're going to switch, get the 80mm Pro-M.

Pro-M has them on sale for $199 right now. Great price for an excellent meter.

http://www.pro-flow.com/Sales Files/Sale Items.htm

Auto Reverse · Apr 29, 2004

houstonstangguy,
I'm sure a new cam would give me at least 50 more to the wheels. But I love my power where it's at. Low to mid and good on top. It's more fun for street driving. The cam was grinded for a 302 block. Maybe in a couple years I'll get something grinded more for the 331, but I'm also thinking Nitrous or Supercharger down the line too.
I was wrapped up in the horsepower number game, but my N/A 325 RWHP has whopped up on cars putting alot more down than me. I'm real happy with the car right now.

houstonstangguy · Apr 29, 2004

Auto Reverse said:
houstonstangguy,
I'm sure a new cam would give me at least 50 more to the wheels. But I love my power where it's at. Low to mid and good on top. It's more fun for street driving. The cam was grinded for a 302 block. Maybe in a couple years I'll get something grinded more for the 331, but I'm also thinking Nitrous or Supercharger down the line too.
I was wrapped up in the horsepower number game, but my N/A 325 RWHP has whopped up on cars putting alot more down than me. I'm real happy with the car right now.

you would definitely pick up alot of power with a better cam.

Did you go with high compression or low compression pistons? or did you just go 9:1??

I also agree, HP numbers aren't everything. Just nice to look at

you can have all the power in the world but if you can't put it to the ground or drive your car, what is the point. lol

You probably should have decided high comp. or low comp. before building the 331. I went 10.18:1 and had the motor prepped for nitrous before hand.

I debated the blower but I figured it would take me forever to save up for the blower, and since I would be able to enjoy more power with high comp. before I even did the nitrous, rather than go low comp. and have lower power levels until i got the blower.

Auto Reverse · Apr 29, 2004

I'm running DSS-Pro Lite pistons. Compression is about 11:1. When the new 331 has about 1,500 miles I'm going back on the Dyno to retune. Figure I'll get about 25 more horsepower just by breaking everything in.

which ProM to replace my C&L 76mm MAF?

svasica

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