Who has the highest spinning 302 (or stroked 302)?

StangJonGT · Jan 13, 2004

This is all great info. I knew there had to be others before me; I just never heard of any actual engines. I know there will be tradeoffs, and I know it would be more costly than doing a stroker or typical H/C/I combo. But as I said earlier, I think the torque curve is a little too sharp at low rpms, giving me too much at once. I want smooth power delivery, plus I think high revving engines sound sweet. Anybody that's done this, what kinda price tag am I looking at? I don't need anymore than 8000rpms, I think the money rpm is 7500--what do you experienced guys think?

Jon

badcoupe · Jan 13, 2004

I spent anout 7500 on my windsor it would be cheaper with a 302 based motor as oil pan dist. etc won't have to be 351 specific. Depends on what you want to build, Motorsport block or stock etc.

ashford · Jan 13, 2004

my first v8 was a 63 289 a sweet little motor, in stock form it torqued to 5000 rpm with a big bore motorcraft 2 bbl. later i put a little bigger 206/216 cam and a 4 bbl on it, jesus it made helatious torque for a little engine at 6000 rpm i didnt much take it past that, sorta scared to ruin that engine. i agree probably a destroked 302 would turn more efficeint rpm than stroked.

btw 63 fairlane do you know where i coul find a 5 bolt manual bell housing or a higher stall torque converter for a cruis_o_matic

rx7speed · Jan 14, 2004

50mustang001 said:
C'mon guys that's nothing. My throttle stuck a while ago and my engine revved passed the 7k line on my tach. My digital tach read 7392 . Beat that! haha. Yea, it's time for a new engine for my car. The one in there now isn't doing so hot.

have ya beat man
forgot to shift out of first in a race and my car is loud enough didn't hear the 7000rpm redline buzzer look down car is pegged at 8000rpms

all I know is I was doing about 45 mph or so in first gear

or there was the time I downshifted from 5th to 2nd OOPS doing about 75mph when some dude was wanting to race me

but motor still runs and only 500miles left till 200,000

wildstang347 · Jan 14, 2004

DSS ofers a lightweight rotateing assembly safe two 1000hp levels, wich my set up is based with..........get a nice custom cam ground from any reputable cam company and nice set of heads 200cc runners or larger!, set up for the cam. and scrap the OEM block (only safe to 500hp) going with world products block or another stronger block...my 349 is shifting at 7200 rpms produceing 445 RWHP netting high 10s with a properly set up suspension with no N2O in a 2800lb LX

go-stang5.0 · Jan 14, 2004

Its do-able. The bottom end will be fine. Not the stock one but you may want to consider a quality hand-made balanced and blue-printed setup like DSS makes. THere long rod 306 setup is pretty sweet, and it has great geometry. That thing will rev for ever. But even my 331 they rate the shortblock to handle 8000 rpms. They dont recommend going much over 6k for the 347's because geometry gets kinda crappy up with that stroke. But the real problem is the valve train. Pushrod valve trains dont like rpms. If you want to rev that high your gonna need some titanium up there and thats not going to be cheap. Personally I went with heavy duty steel double springs on my AFR 185's. There rated to .600 lift and 7k rpms continuous use. It didnt cost too much more than the base stuff. But hey if you have the money go for it. The bottom end isnt really the problem its the top end. Oh and forget about driveability with a cam that makes power that high.

StangJonGT · Jan 14, 2004

Anybody have a link for DSS? I was thinking of a 306 long rod--?

Jon

SN95_XB331 · Jan 14, 2004

http://www.dssracing.com/

Hmmm... if I were Ford and want import characteristics:
Just convert over to a 4.6L Cobra motor. It's been done--guys have stuff 4.6's into a fox body or 94/5 body.... On a fox body a 4.6L is murder since the car is lighter (if it's a notchback). If your heart is set "on a 302", get a SHM 302 OHC stroker . Get it balanced and stuff a centrifugal S/C. Then goto town at 7500rpms w/dead solid reliability.... (better yet a 5.4L motor sounds GT40-ish... ) The cost would be definitely more, but think about the possibilities... Those motors were designed w/rpms in mind...

EDIT: Duh on me didn't notice: you have a 2000GT, it's designed to rev higher and produce more power than a long rod-based 302, hecks it's more efficient than a 302 at those revs...so why reinvent the wheel, a 01' cobra motor swap maybe the ticket...

PURESTREET5006 · Jan 14, 2004

We shift our 310 at 7300's and your gonna need a lite weight rotating assembly as well and a very good set of heads,valvetrain,induction system,and cam shaft....and most important"GEARING"

StangJonGT · Jan 14, 2004

SN95-- Thanks for the link. I will check it out. I am selling the 2000, which is why I didn't really consider it. As for the Cobra swap, that has been on my mind for awhile, but I kind of want a more custom, hands on approach. So....that leads to the venerable 5.0.

Jon

Idwitheld-1` · Jan 14, 2004

StangJonGT said:
I am getting back in the 5.0 game, and want to merge the best of the import world, the high rev count, with the best of the domestic world--the Mustang GT with a 302. I am trying to figure out what is available, what has been done, and what can be done. I am looking for no more than 7500rpms, but I know at that point the bottom end has to be rebuilt. So, who has done this or knows about this? Thanks--

Jon

Has anyone ever put a import motor in a stang? (oh God please don't flame me). I'm just asking out of curriousity.

StangJonGT · Jan 14, 2004

I hope not. They really aren't designed for one another.

65ShelbyClone · Jan 15, 2004

StangJonGT said:
65ShelbyClone-
If you look at all the successful racing engines, the thing you are likely to notice is that huge torque does not come early. Quite the opposite, actually. And what I have discovered is, the best engine (for me anyways) is the one with a more linear power curve. I love low down torque, and the 5.0 hooked me while I was still nursing my permit. But also I love tractable, useable power through the rev range. What I am aiming to do is widen the 5.0's power curve to include a peak about 2,000rpm above stock, moving that fat torque curve up as well. This way, when I am punching 2nd out of a long sweeper, I don't have to compensate for my rear wagging. I am trying to combine two fun engine types; the high revving 4 cylinder with the torquey 8 cylinder, not having the compromise of either. That, my friends, sounds like fun.

Thats right, race engines dont have low-end torque. Thats because they stay above 4500rpm 90% of the time. Fun yes, but what I'm getting at is a 302 that makes power up to a 7500 or 8000rpm redline is not going to have the bottom end torque you want unless it has a roots-type blower on top. That "fat" torque curve will move higher in the rpm band, but will become much narrower in the process. An engine with the linear torque curve you want is actually much like the stock engine. Since I know I havent discouraged you, why not go for broke and aim for 9000 or 10,000rpm with an R302 or Dart block? 10,000 really would be fun...

StangJonGT · Jan 15, 2004

You are right, Shelby, although I do not know if the torque curve would necessarily become more narrow. But, I do not know that much about it. As for going for broke and spinning to 10K, I would do exactly that--go broke. I am trying to do something feasible for the street and wallet, something that takes characteristics of both high revving imports and axle-twisting V8s and combines them to produce a hybrid. Taking one engine to either extreme seems expensive and would likely yield unworthy results in the end. 7500-8000rpms still seems like a very accomplishable goal.

Jon

dcormier · Jan 15, 2004

rx7speed said:
have ya beat man
forgot to shift out of first in a race and my car is loud enough didn't hear the 7000rpm redline buzzer look down car is pegged at 8000rpms

all I know is I was doing about 45 mph or so in first gear

or there was the time I downshifted from 5th to 2nd OOPS doing about 75mph when some dude was wanting to race me

but motor still runs and only 500miles left till 200,000

Heh. My stock '88 GT with the original motor does ~53 in first and almost 90 in second. Yes, that's the stock redline in both gears. I'll have the numbers for 3rd gear fairly soon as I just got a 12-channel GPS unit that'll track high-speed over a given stretch. =]

However, from the research I've done it looks like that car has 2.73's in the rear end, so I don't have to spin the engine up to 7 or 8000 RPM to get to that speed in those gears.

StangJonGT · Jan 15, 2004

You could just calculate the mathematical top speed in each gear instead of actually running it up there. Oh well.

Jon

65ShelbyClone · Jan 15, 2004

I forgot to ask just how the car will be driven. There are two ways to build it; 1.) Like Thumper said, the engine may quit making power, but you can still wind it out. That means fairly mild parts for good streetability and tough hardware for the revs. 2.) Build it to utilize all that rpm potential with heavy breathing induction and exhaust. Power goes up, streetability goes down.

rx7speed · Jan 16, 2004

dcormier said:
Heh. My stock '88 GT with the original motor does ~53 in first and almost 90 in second. Yes, that's the stock redline in both gears. I'll have the numbers for 3rd gear fairly soon as I just got a 12-channel GPS unit that'll track high-speed over a given stretch. =]

However, from the research I've done it looks like that car has 2.73's in the rear end, so I don't have to spin the engine up to 7 or 8000 RPM to get to that speed in those gears.

lucky bastard

though in my car 2.73 wouldn't work worth a darn
right now running 4.10's with 205/60/15 tires
still haven't figure out how many rpms I have hit though

best way to keep a streetable high rev motor is to take advantage or variable cam timing
not going to happen
or build a car that is a little less streetable
not wanting to happen
or put boost on there

dcormier · Jan 17, 2004

StangJonGT said:
You could just calculate the mathematical top speed in each gear instead of actually running it up there. Oh well.

Jon

Of course one could. Without too much trouble, either. But where's the fun in that? =]

Who has the highest spinning 302 (or stroked 302)?

StangJonGT

badcoupe

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ashford

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rx7speed

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wildstang347

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go-stang5.0

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StangJonGT

SN95_XB331

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PURESTREET5006

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Idwitheld-1`

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dcormier

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rx7speed

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