Why I'll wait for the SVT Mustang

Mach460 · Jan 21, 2004

Ron Jeremy said:
I drove the 2003 Explorer last year. Its IRS that it has makes the Explorer have a smoother ride. Almost like it floats on air. I hope that the Ford Mustang and the Cobra don't feel like driving a full size luxury Cadillac if they ever put an IRS in them or if they offer the IRS as an option. The last thing that we need is a Mustang to have the air coushion ride of the Cadillac Deville. As an airline pilot, I always experience the floating sensation when I'm inside the cockpit flying the Airbus. I don't need the same here with the Mustang or Cobra if the IRS feels the same way.

It depends on how the damper's and springs are set. Look at a BMW 3 Series, it uses IRS, but nobody would ever compare it floating in air. Of course an Explorer is going to feel like it floats on air, that's what it was designed for and given the market for it, the ride and the handling justify the damper and spring settings.

In a Mustang, the IRS would be designed with a view towards handling "fun to drive" factor. The ride will improve, but it won't be a "boat" by any stretch of the imagination.

Ron Jeremy · Jan 21, 2004

That's interesting.

Do you have another picture of the Explorer IRS, but a top view of it? It's hard to see the Explorer's IRS system from the angle of the picture that you posted here.

KidTwist51 · Jan 21, 2004

Geez kick me when I'm down, and holy crap he brings out the pictures in case there was still any doubt I was wrong, lol.

Still reinforces what I said though. If they can beef up the current IRS from the LS and S-type, and BTW an LS handles very well, then thats a big plus for those who want an IRS like myself. That is interesting, I never did look at the Explorer IRS myself.
God, did it do wonders for that truck! They dont' feel like they're gonna tip over anymore when you're just pulling out of the driveway.

-Chris

Iwvustang · Jan 21, 2004

Origionally IRS was supposed to be standard on the '05, but production costs became a problem so they were then toying with the idea of making it optional, and in the end they just cut it out all together. I wouldn't be too surprised if a few years after the '05s release there will be an IRS option.

BTW, i don't think the S-type IRS would really need to be beefed, it handles the 390 hp/390 tq in the S-Type R just fine. (I know from experience )

DG2001GT · Jan 21, 2004

2005 solid rear end

I Don't know about you all but it looks like nascar has those solid rear ends hooked up preaty good. And from the pics I've seen the new mustang it incorrperates alot of these features. Count me in for a SVT with one solid rear end please and a 5.4L 3 valve superchrged please lol!

KidTwist51 · Jan 21, 2004

Those are 390 horse!? God those things are slow, just like everything else with a Jaguar badge on it short of the XJ-220.

-Chris

95ripper · Jan 21, 2004

There is one aspect that never seems to get brought up in the Live axle/IRS debate. For is in the selling cars buisness, they need to continue to sell cars, not just for one year. If the new stang had every possible option for it (read IRS, 6-Speed) everyone would buy one now, and then sales would drop. If they start selling an awesome car with come options, then over the next few years release more options, whether through regular options, or special editions, it will sell more models, because some of the people that bought an 05 will trade it in on an 07 or 08 because of what they can get on them. While Ford is into making an good car, it is more important to them to make money, otherwise there would be no Ford, and thus no Stang.

(&) · Jan 21, 2004

DG2001GT said:
I Don't know about you all but it looks like nascar has those solid rear ends hooked up preaty good. And from the pics I've seen the new mustang it incorrperates alot of these features. Count me in for a SVT with one solid rear end please and a 5.4L 3 valve superchrged please lol!

The problem is, people don't drive around in circles on highly banked turns on exceptionally smooth roads. And it's not like NASCAR cars have an ideal setup for what they do anyway...they're simply "good enough" for whoever is in charge and the fans. They still use carbs too, right? Do you want a carb on your SVT?

97predator · Jan 21, 2004

(&) said:
The problem is, people don't drive around in circles on highly banked turns on exceptionally smooth roads. And it's not like NASCAR cars have an ideal setup for what they do anyway...they're simply "good enough" for whoever is in charge and the fans. They still use carbs too, right? Do you want a carb on your SVT?

very true. my first car was a 75 impala. loved it, except when it was cold, lol. i am currently in a 97 Cougar with independent rear and really, i am impressed. the car has a smooth ride, but is far from a slouch. my friends all drive various rice burners, and yet my 3800 pound car plus 250 lbs of me hangs right with them in most turns. i can go into an off ramp at 55 miles an hour. dont do it often by any means, but when i passed my friends integra he nearly shat himself. i would honestly like to see the irs at least as an option, but i think it todays world it should be a base item. and IRS seems fine for racing i.e. corvette, the terminator? my impala had no trouble with power, but damn it sucks to slow to 10 miles an hour to turn. and bringing the a$$ around in a 4500 pound car is no joke either lol. i am about to pee myself with excitment over the new stang. it comes out just in time for me to graduate. irs or not, i will have one.

tommyg · Jan 21, 2004

i would be willing to pay $40k for an SVT version of the 'stang if it included a 6 speed, IRS, and an additional 50 horses or so. Most decent sports cars start at that level these days, and I believe the Mustang would still represent a great value at that level.

Now, if we start getting up in the $45k range, i'm likely to consider a new 'vette, or a year old M3. I think IRS is hugely important, as brute power means nothing if you can't use it anytime there's a twist in the road...

svtnupe · Jan 21, 2004

I thought originally cars went to FWD because that's what Japanese were doing to maximize cargo and interior volume (no draft shaft or rear differential to eat up space). It seems that now RWD is becoming more of a luxury item than anything else. I never paid attention to the differences in handling between a FWD car and a RWD car until I went to BMW's ultimate drive and the differences were explained. After that, I said I didn't want to own another FWD car again. My Contour will be the last!

xcessive50 · Jan 21, 2004

There is one aspect that never seems to get brought up in the Live axle/IRS debate. For is in the selling cars buisness, they need to continue to sell cars, not just for one year. If the new stang had every possible option for it (read IRS, 6-Speed) everyone would buy one now, and then sales would drop. If they start selling an awesome car with come options, then over the next few years release more options, whether through regular options, or special editions, it will sell more models, because some of the people that bought an 05 will trade it in on an 07 or 08 because of what they can get on them. While Ford is into making an good car, it is more important to them to make money, otherwise there would be no Ford, and thus no Stang.

Mach460 · Jan 21, 2004

95ripper said:
There is one aspect that never seems to get brought up in the Live axle/IRS debate. For is in the selling cars buisness, they need to continue to sell cars, not just for one year. If the new stang had every possible option for it (read IRS, 6-Speed) everyone would buy one now, and then sales would drop. If they start selling an awesome car with come options, then over the next few years release more options, whether through regular options, or special editions, it will sell more models, because some of the people that bought an 05 will trade it in on an 07 or 08 because of what they can get on them. While Ford is into making an good car, it is more important to them to make money, otherwise there would be no Ford, and thus no Stang.

On the flip side, Ford has (or had) a chance to expand the market for the Mustang with the 05. As it stands now, I think Ford is relying too heavily on the Mustang's name and the hardcore Mustanger and not even bothering to expand it beyond that. That may lead to the Mustang hovering around the current sales level, and thus not giving Ford any incentive to improve the breed beyond what it is now, with the exception of the occasional special edition and the SVT, but even then, those cars will be beyond the Mustangs "possible" target market.

Do you take the chance and hope that new features (like IRS) will bring in new customers and expand the car's market, or do you stick with the tried and true formula that really gives you no incentive to improve the car?

ar156 · Jan 22, 2004

Can You tell me what is "IRS"

tommyg · Jan 22, 2004

independent rear suspension

95ripper · Jan 22, 2004

I totally agree that the IRS should be an option. I also agree that it would be an addition to sales, it will open up a nother side to the mustang that was never really there before, road racing/auto cross. There were people doing it, but it didn't have the backing that the drag racing did, especially from the factory. Personally I would prefer the IRS, but I also see a "need" to keep the live axle. I am really curious how it will perform, I think the new set up will be more than adequate for most drivers, most of the people on these boards wouldn't be considered on the same level as most drivers though. I think it will help keep the cost down using the live axle, there would be hardly any developement cost, it is just using a simple 3 link and panhard bar. Personally what I would like to see as an option is a 275 HP duratek 35 with a 6spd and an IRS, I think that would be a great driver/play car, the lighter v6 with all the handling goodies would be an awesome car for daily use. I think the new mustang can fill so many more gaps than the previous one, the basic chasis looks to be so much better and with fords modular idea of thinking it seems could easily be made into a drag version, a RR version, and a regular driver version. I say bring on all the possibilities.

yellow5.0cobra · Jan 22, 2004

You guys seem to miss the point that the new suspension should be better than the current IRS.

Dont complain until you driven BOTH.

Mr. Jack · Jan 22, 2004

yellow5.0cobra said:
You guys seem to miss the point that the new suspension should be better than the current IRS.

Dont complain until you driven BOTH.

Good point. Even with live axle out back this Mustang GT will have an improved suspension over the SN95's.

The car will finally have a much needed panhard bar and I imagine that will definitely improve the handling feel of the solid axle.

351CJ · Jan 22, 2004

Mach460 said:
The IRS in the Cobra was fashioned after the IRS used by Saleen in his Le Mans and SCCA race cars.

I thought that the Cobra IRS was derrived from the MN-12 IRS (old T-Bird . Cougar / MK-VIII platform).

DG2001GT · Jan 23, 2004

yellow5.0cobra said:
You guys seem to miss the point that the new suspension should be better than the current IRS.

Dont complain until you driven BOTH.

Agreed this new rear suspension should keep up just fine with the rice burners. I think may people will be very suprised. I can't wait to drive(own) this car.

Why I'll wait for the SVT Mustang

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